Bro, do you even Role Play???

This would be the biggest challenge they will have with selective multiplayer.

If the story is the front most feature, how will the PvE/PvP interact with that story? The PvE is pretty straight forward. The PvP will have many levels of player response to many aspects of the game.

Most notably will be the full loot. This puts down time into the issue at more of an extreme than it would be for PvE. The PvP will wear the gear that is most efficiently replaced due to the risk of loss. The down time is directly related to gear replacement.

If the story brings hard content, death will be more probable. If death is the only PvE down time. PvE has death while PvP has death and item loss.

The only way I can see to balance this would be to have MOBs loot the players. This brings down time from item loss into the equation for all players.

Then it puts item replacement as the main concern for downtime. If the story is tuned for the best gear in the game, MOBs loot that best gear, how quickly can players replace that gear and attempt the story again?

How does that affect rare or more costly resources used to make gear. Would they actually be rare.

Best way I see is to limit "full loot" to some loot to control the down time.

The pains of items loss causing too much down time to replace that gear is the cause of things like insurance.

 

This is not the same as item losing, ffs. Not even close. Not even in the nearby galaxy.

Exactly.

 

Is this about you wanting to take people's stuff or is this about them losing it?

 

It's about both.
I hope your next comment isn't gonna be about angry kids who like to grief ppl online, cause I am already an adult and my business makes more money than online looting ever would..

 

It's ultimately about immersion.
No immersion = no templar in Sota.

 

It's not the same as item taking by the victor in PVP, but how is it any different for the one losing the item? Item lose is item lose, no matter how you lose it. You still have to put in time and effort to replace it.

 

Because nobody else loots what you lost.
This defies immersion.
Why would I play an un-immersive RPG?

 

No, it's about focusing on your ONE level of immersion and pushing everything else to the back seat.

 

So you agree with long jail terms for convicted murderers? I mean, think how immersive that would be.

 

Because constantly having to go back and do the same things over and over to re-aquire what I've already worked for because someone else is unwilling to put in the effort themselves and decide to attack me with 5 buddies so they can take it from me.
Forced grinding defies immersion also.
Why would I play an RPG where other players can consume my limited play time by forcing me to grind back to where I was?

 

Careful Dhailen: adults don't do that.

Meh, lets go all out full loot full PvP. Kill someone and open yourself to permadeath and the guards confiscate your estate. Gets some lasting punishment in here, for immersion sake.

Then once we grind out all our riches and lose it all for committing a major crime we can quit and move on to some other game.

 

Let's not confuse immersion with realistic...

I keep reading posts using immersion as an excuse to justify why some aspect of the real life should be reflected in a game, and that's usually a failed argument. Immersion is a cualitative way of defining how well the game translates it's experience directly into the player, meaning it only affects the mechanics implemented in game. That's why interface elements and float text are usually regarded as unimmersive, because they are part of the game, but not of the game experience. Nonetheless, if a game is settled in a world where every time i hit you i substract an amount of your health and instead of blood a number reflecting that loss pops up, floating text is immersive.

In SotA, Devs stated that characters bleed, so they're preparing a system where blood spurts in a certain amount when you receive a wound. That's immersive, and also more realistic than popping numbers.

In SotA, Devs stated that crafting will be divided in three sections; foraging, refining and finally crafting. Making a skill represent your aptitude towards a certain element of the chain, and making autosuficency harder to achieve is immersive, and also realistic.

Not being able to kill people so they stay that way is not realistic. Not being able to take everything you want without any restraint is not realistic. But you can't say is unimmersive until they refuse to give you an explanation about why it works that way.

This one is over then! it's time to repeat how full loot improves the economy

 

Which they have and was pretty much ignored.

And they said how this isn't true, also ignored.

 

I know mate, i was just pointing out next in rotation (funny how they said it themselves, but you know it will come again)

Honestly, don't think this matter will settle once and for all. There are people who wants it so badly to disregard any reasonable statement. I recogniced Full loot was unavailable since i saw the economy they had planned (one that doesn't favor full loot) and the feelings from the community (an heterogeneous one, that needs to be unified, not stratified). That was all I needed to change my mind. And as you pointed me out, they haven't close the door to some way of extended loot, so why spend time defending some radical stance? Let's see how brilliant Devs are in that matter i've seen so much good suggestions that regarded compromise to fear a dull loot system.

I'll keep my eye on this post. It's kind of fun to see the same story repeating. @Ristra, you should prepare three or four automated answers to the most repeated topics, so you can just paste them! it will save lots of time. Also, it would be even funnier

 

On killing things to stay dead, or staying dead yourself, it depends on whether its an intentional aspect of the game lore to me. What needs to be maintained for immersion is a feeling that its a believable world and that I'm not in a game. If I die, respawn at the beginning of a scene, die again, respawn again, and so on, that's going to make it feel like I'm in a game. The same way, if I kill someone and they respawn over and over to go after me, its also going to make it feel like a game. Ultimately, it is less immersive when that happens. Can't deny that. The only case in which it wouldn't make it feel like a game if that was a planned aspect of the lore and story, and whatever lore existed wasn't just tacked on to explain and justify the game mechanic. But if they put lore in, and the lore was just basically an excuse for this, and not something intentional and thought out, then it wouldn't make it feel less like a game.

But it's also not avoidable. Because even if you did have perma-death, your character died, and you started a new one, and did the same adventure again, you'd still be reminded its a game. And if the character you killed died, and he started a new character with the same name, who looked exactly the same way, you'd also be reminded its a game. So that's just the truth of the matter that immersion can never be airtight. You're basically dealing with a game, and you can't hide that fact completely. A game can't be 100% immersive, deal with it.

The best you can hope for is that death is at least meaningful in the game.

I actually don't feel all restraints on picking things up really destroy immersion or even realism that much, because there are always things that you're restricted from doing, since the game doesn't even give you an option to do them. Players aren't given the option to pick their nose, for instance. The game isn't unrealistic simply because you can't pick your nose. Maybe the more of these options they put in, the more realistic it is, but not putting a lot of options in doesn't necessarily make it unrealistic.

However... if you're in a fight and there's a weapons rack nearby, and you need a weapon, and can't pick one up.. that does harm realism and immersion a bit. Because that's something you expect to be able to do when you see the weapons rack. That's how I felt a bit at Vertas Pass, where you have all these shields and swords on a rack, but you... can't pick them up.

 

It's the difference of reading headlines and reading the article. Stick to the headlines you can't see how everything folds together. If the headline doesn't have the buzz words that grab your attention, moving on.

Hehheh, if I get the ambition up for it, I would make it all video quotes.

 

It is not one level of immersion, it is one aspect of immersion. Sheesh.

this sentence is clearly

There is a line between immersing and burdening the player with stuff that removes the fun from the game. You and Ristra don't seem to see it. You don't seem to care, actually. I write my posts for those who care. Someone might one day read them and get excellent ideas, or at least see that he's not the only one in the world having such great ideas.
What about you two? Do you have any cool ideas? Or can you only bash me for wanting to play something other than a gragon grind simulator, which you seem to wnat more than everything?

When you play a game without loot you just do the same. Constantly grind dragons and the same quests over and over again. Go ahead and tell me that's not true.

 

http://sjennings.wordpress.com/2004/12/18/the-unbearable-darkness-of-ultima-online/

 

I want Templar in SotA whichever way this turns out :>

 

I do get it but I have to wonder if you don't get the impact of what you want. It allows other people to impose control on others and puts them in the position that their only choice could be to log off. - bad

I do actually have several posts with ideas to adjust the current PvP and loot to a more acceptable state. If people would stop trying to get the devs to scrap everything the have on the table and go back to pre-Tram UO then we might be discussing more creative ideas.