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Combat system - deck based combat really bad idea

Discussion in 'Release 10 Feedback' started by crachazz, Sep 28, 2014.

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  1. Duke Crachazz

    Duke Crachazz Avatar

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    I tried it, I don't like it one bit.

    Here is why:

    As a PvP player, I need to be able to assign skills/spells to a hotkey on my keyboard, this enables me to come up with my own tactic when I fight other players, with the deck system this is not possible and on top of that it also introduces randomness in where / what slot specific skills are located...

    It makes the combat not more realistic nor does it generate more excitement, it is only watching the computer screen and wait for the right glyph to come up in my "deck/hand" that is always present and also kills my personal immersion.

    This "deck/glyph" system limits players to only a few skills/spells in their deck. It would be much better if we could use whatever skills/spells we wanted to, by assigning them a permanent hotkey on our keyboard/gamepad whatever. This would make combat much more diverse!

    We could still use skills/spells depending on our situation, but WE would decide which ones ourselves, and not the AI...

    I also believe the "deck/glyph" system will also cause "best decks/hands" to come up that everybody will be using, because it is limiting the players to only a few skills, instead of making the combat system diverse I think it will have the opposite effect.


    Also the whole implementation is very bad and a huge immersion breaker imho. The random movements at the bottom of your screen, are super irritating and draw the players attention when he should be immersed in the fight itself.


    Everything else in the game so far, I love a lot! But sadly, the combat system with "decks/hands/glyphs" is an absolute dealbreaker for me, and I don't think I would play the game if this was how it would be working in the end.


    Thanks! :)
     
  2. Sir_Hemlock

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    I was a huge Ultima fan since 1989 but I know perfectly well Random Deck is a terrible and poorly received system.
     
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  3. Killarim

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    That is why locked decks exist, to have the traditional MMO non-random setup with traditional cooldown methods which is slower than using unlocked decks.

    Unless you are talking about having a hotkey assigned for each skill learned without it being in an action bar.
     
  4. Duke Crachazz

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    This is exactly what I am talking about.
    And even if "locked decks" would be an alternative for me, the other downsides of this system I was talking about, wouldn't be solved by using locked glyphs imho. (of which you can also only have max 5 I think from my tests)
     
  5. Sir_Hemlock

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    Its very restrictive, very limiting.
     
  6. Borg

    Borg Avatar

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    Locked Deck = NO COMBOS = INCREASED FOCUS COST = GLOBAL COOL DOWN = UNFAIR

    I think the dynamic deck system and randomness is terribly distracting is taking attention out of action.We are playing a combat VIDEO GAME not CARDS, this system is forcing us to constantly look at the bottom of the screen I sincerely don't like that. We are forced to handle two different things at the same time, not to mention the combo system, in my humble opinion nice if we were playing cards but not when you are chasing an opponent. In conclusion I think this system wont appeal PVP players at all.
     
  7. Lord_Darkmoon

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    No standard WoW combat system for SotA! Many people here hate this idea amd rightfully so. The game should not focus on PvP and the deck combat system is proof of that and thank god about this!

    A typical MMO combat would totally kill the fun of combat for me as I simply hate this system that has been done to death in games. Are there no new ideas allowed in the genre? This standard combat would transform SotA to something I despise so much about MMORPGs. The way combat and classes are handled nowadays in games, especially in MMOs take the whole fun out of the games. It becomes an abomination, something that is calculateable. With a WoW like combat system combat is not about the thrill of fighting, trying to survive but instead about powergaming, min maxing, trying to become the best as fast as possible. The next step would be to introduce exclamation marks above the heads of questgivers. For me both are in the same category - warping and destroying everything an RPG stood for and twisting it into an abomination that is just for powergamers and those who are in for the competition. All others are ignored.
    I hope that RG will never ever introduce WoW like combat in SotA. If he feels the need to change it then he should change it to something different, a more active combat, far, FAR away from anything the even slightly resembles WoW.
     
  8. Sir_Hemlock

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    A handful of people here enjoy Random Deck. A heck of a lot do not lol and that is abundantly clear. For most it is literally 'cringeworthy'.

    Its losing SotA sales fast.

    I think 'randomizing' a bunch of skills was a lazy, unimaginative, lamentable choice. And 'combos'... childish.
     
  9. KuBaTRiZeS

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    I've been playing all weekend, but not until a while ago i ventured into some open PVP. I used a 6 slots all random deck with maces and a bit of death magic, and i've been using hotkeys the entire time, even for combos. Once i got the hang of it, i had a lot of fun.

    It's true it has it oddities (Min/maxable, unreal, unbalanced, more randomish than you'd like, need to keep your eyes on the bar more than you want to). But looking at the core concept, i'm pleasured to say that i support it. I'm confident that between players and devs we can develop the concept further to address the real issues of the system. There has been a lot of talk about active counters, worries about high end skills, and combat dynamics, and we know they're reading it... just hope they'll focus on that parts, even if they take our advices or not.
     
  10. sn0tub

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    Deck system is great for PvP

    All PvP fights have been alot of fun and feels like an actual struggle
     
  11. da.n.ynu.tk.os.@gmail.com

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    You do realize that there have been many, MANY games since WoW, right?
    It is not just a choice of randomized skills or WoW clone. There are tons of other ways to go about making combat interesting, tactical, and realistic.

    There has been many suggestions on how to make combat interesting, from myself and many other community members, almost none of which have been simply WoW's "damage on cooldowns".
     
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  12. rune_74

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    Yeah right...a handful like it. What are you basing this on? Can you possibly post that in a non condescending way?
     
  13. Galder

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    I really enjoyed the deck based combat. The system is different than that of the typical MMOs, quite original I'd say, and it has the potential of becoming REALLY interesting.
     
  14. Sirius Sternwarte

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    I stopped reading about here. I've been led to believe that a pvp player can and will use any means at their disposal to get ahead. Whilst I'm very much an amatuer I can say from my limited experience in pvp mainly in UO and eve, this system seems to me to be about as fair and flexible as balance can allow. Personally I think this is a great system.
     
  15. Miganarchine

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    Secret world is the only MMO I know with a deck system, Really makes the game cause you can equip what cards you want and mix it up if you are struggling to win.
     
  16. Lord_Darkmoon

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    I would absolutely not have a problem with a different combat system that is active and not passive as it is the case in many MMOs. Also I would very much prefer a combat system with less skills. In fact I would prefer something like in Skyrim. Just skills for different weapons and armor and blocks as well as a few spells.
    I still don't get why we need so many combat related skills and spells?
    So yes I would not be opposed to a new combat system as long as it is not WoW-like.
     
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  17. Poor game design

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    Kind of an interesting set up for picking skills.

    Thanks for posting about this, I'd never even heard of this game before.

    A few things that seem relevant to note:

    1. The Secret World Deck System appears to base class based with some skills that bleed over between classes. (that's different than the classless system we have here) It seems like the "deck" part of this game is more about having customization and flexibility in the skill tree.
    2. In the PVP videos I watched, the Decks look like they can be mapped to your keys, so I'm not really sure where the "deck" part of all this comes from. If the cards are provided to the player at random, ok that's similar. But the keys look mapped on the videos I've watched so I'm not sure this is really a good example of how it's being done somewhere else.
    3. Also from the PVP videos, the skills appear at the bottom of the screen, so if they're not bound then players would still be watching them and not the action. It doesn't appear that's going on (in the videos I watched), so I'm not sure if this example tells us a lot.

    Still thanks a lot for posting that, it was interesting.
     
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  18. Ao Soliwilos

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    I have to say that I want a combat system more based on physics where movement, attacking, blocking and dodging are key points.

    You would aim and try to hit your opponent, and they in turn would try to avoid being hit (or block) while at the same time trying to hit you. Removing targeting entirely (tabbed or otherwise) and relying only on actual physical aiming, whether you're using a sword or fireball.

    A combat implementation like this makes using rotations pretty hard, so no need for the randomization they are trying to force in with their "deck" system. It would just be a natural part of combat.

    I also have to admit that I cringe a little when hearing "deck" and "cards" describe the current combat in Shroud of the Avatar (some of my friends too), because I play Magic the Gathering, an actual card game and well, that's not what I want in a game like this. It comes off as a strange element and not a good fit for a game of this type. At least for my preferences.

    A combat system oriented around actual aiming also automatically brings with it the use of terrain as a tactical element, where we could possibly even have weapons we throw over or around obstacles without seeing our enemy, making things even more interesting.

    Why a combat system more akin to this is not being prioritized is a little of a puzzle to me, especially when realism has been a word thrown around in regards to the combat Portalarium wants.
     
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  19. Poor game design

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    That seems like a good way to go. Something like what they have in Dark Souls 2.



    My problem with this is Latency and Budget. DS2 is multiplayer but it's not an MMO. Also, as dynamic and compelling as that combat is...where do you roleplay in that battle? Can you talk to your opponent? It's not really designed for roleplaying and that's what SOTA is, a roleplaying game.

    I like Dark Souls 2 combat, even though I'm horrible at it. But I'd like more from SOTA, something where I don't have to be good a button mashing and I can out think my opponents.
     
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  20. Lord_Darkmoon

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    Maybe combat as it is done nowadays in MMORPGs is just too much. Too many skills, too many possibilities which results in you becoming an observer who waits until the cooldown allows for using the next skill.
    Combat could be much more fun if it would be fast, active and more action-oriented with less skills to look out for. I think even a combat system like in Ultima 9 could be more fun.
     
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