Consensual pvp???? Stay a While and Listen Why this is no fun.....

why not permadeath?
consequecnce for being a lawless murderer of innocents is if you die you do not ressurect. maybe you could do virtue quests to absolve some murders but if you got killed with a murder on your "soul" you can not resurrect!

if im so hardcore i want full pvp full loot i can handle permadeath

just makes crazy fights even more intense!

 

Game making is a business, permadeath comes with the risk that the player will not start over, bad for business.

That or the player finds some method to mitigate the loss from permadeath to an acceptable level. If the level of loss is acceptable then it is no deterrent.

 

EVE online is not really a open PvP game. In high sec space you can be attack but CONCORD are in place and will shut down the attacker before a kill can happen. The reaction times on CONCORD have been adjusted several, it's have become harder and harder to shoot someone down.

 

i know it would never happen but its nice to dream. it would clearly be exploited by multiple accounts or guilds just put all your stuff on another account with another character and keep one account just for ganking.

this is just one example of a way around it.


it doesnt take long to grind a char up in levels if thats all your doing.

 

bingo!

 

Not by any means. Meanwhile I'm familar with your kind of discussion and will leave you alone with that

 

Prevent people from talking.

No one should talk because they will only fight?

Not talking yourself

What's the point of the forums then?
A civil conversation can be had, if you are not interested, that's your choice.

The topic is consensual PvP and looking for one's definition of the term is a fair enough of a question.

 

Eve Online always gets brought up to claim that open PvP games aren't doomed to fail, but Eve is a completely different animal.

First of all, Eve has Highsec, and 90% of Eve's population is in highsec. It offers pretty vast regions of space for people to play in without being subjected to random PvP. Just because eve has 0.0 space and alliances that throw huge amounts of material at each other doesn't mean that that would be sustainable without someone somewhere sitting in a safe system mining veldspar.

But much more importanly, Eve open PvP is fundamentally different from other games in the regard that it is designed in such a way that the primary means of PvP is disrupting other player's activities, not actually killing them. When an enemy player enters your system you usually have plenty of time to secure your assets and either go to another character or organize a response. Most of the damage done to you is simply the ore and credits you're missing out on because you had to stop grinding when the enemy appeared.

Actually killing someone who doesn't want to be killed in Eve is a pretty major undertaking and most of the actual skill involved in PvP comes down to the pursuit and avoidance procedures, not the actual fight. A huge chunk of the PvP in Eve happens without a single shot ever being fired. One alliance sends a raiding party into enemy territory, they come into the system, all the miners run back to base, the enemies eventually organize a fleet to free the blockaded system, and the raiding fleet runs for it as soon as things get hot, knowing that they already inflicted billions and billions of ISK worth in damages simply by preventing their opponents from mining.

The giant fundamental difference between open PvP in a game like SoA and open PvP in Eve is simply that in Eve it's extremely hard to force people into a fight if they don't want to be in a fight. You can't sneak up on them because of local chat, you can't easily find them because of safe points, you can't even very easily wait them out because of Eves focus on multi-account play. In Eve it's hard to make a fight happen unless your opponent thinks they can win, and that's the biggest thing that makes Eve a fundamentally different type of open PvP game than what people talk about when they say they would like to simply kill and loot anyone they stumble upon in a game like SoA.

 

What possible reason could someone have to set their status as "lootable" if they don't know whether the people they're fighting will also be lootable? That doesn't make sense, it's like throwing your gear away...

 

​

-less freedom​

-less roleplaying abilitys​

-useless armor crafters/weapon crafter as profession to make money every day​

-ruined economy through botters​

-totally different from ultima online ruleset we loved, arent there enough themepark games without loot ??​

-meaningless pvp is boring​

-no loot cause inbalanced pvp (you have the best weapon , you dont loose it?) how unfair, there is absolutly no risk using this op weapon against less geared players.​

when you once get one of the hardcore gamers down , he remains op ??? and come back after a minute XD how realistic​

-no sense to have a house or to repeat dungeons (if you dont have the feeling i need crafting mats for at least a month of pvp in my house.​

​

in my opinion a mmo have to be a mixture out of tons of good mechanics​

-pvp must be fun and with loot​

-there must be gambling​

-fishing​

-breeding​

-good pve​

​

so different players get attracted.​

​

the pvpers go roming (with loot)​

the new players make duels in town where they not loose gear​

there should be an arena with no loot aswell​

​

and pve players should get attracted by scary dungeons and a deep story (atm dungeons and creatures are far away from being scary)​

-pve players should get an interesting town life (gambling , house of plessure) run a buisness, breeding, concert hall with music instruments, so they can have much fun in town and dont need to leave it to have fun ..if it is primetime and a lot of guilds do pvp outside.​

 

So PVE players should stay in town unless they pay for protection....sounds fun, where can I sign up?

 

Misconceptions:

"I can't role play unless pvp is completely open"
"People will bot and ruin the economy because pvp is not open"
"This rule set is not the ultima rule set that EVERYONE loved!!!"
"The PVP in Ultima Online was meaningful!!"
"There will be no penalties for death in SotA"


Imho, when I go back and play Ultima on Free servers, I am simply annoyed by PK's and lose interest very quickly. It's the l33t gamers that ruin games like this.

 

This argument seems be thrown around a lot. The argument is wrong and there are several counter examples to disprove your assertion that ANY game with open PvP will fail. I am not going to list every MMORPG which as been successful with an open world, but Eve Online and Lineage are two good examples. "Not a single game that catered to the hardcore PvP crowd has ever prospered" is a simply a statement that is inconsistent with the market. You also did not define your definition of a prosperous. You may have intended to say that no game has gained a larger share of the market and more dollars than World of Warcraft, which is true.

People who are adamant that the game should not have open PvP seem to be creating some of the silliest arguments. You should just be honest and say that you are not interested in a game with open PvP. You are fear mongering and quite frankly it is not working. Your first statement is also wrong, MMORPGs have existed long before Ultima Online. There were quite a few games out on the market actually and the gaming community was quite vibrant. You may be too young to realize, but there were MUDs long before Ultima Online came around. There was also Meridian 59 around the time of Ultima Online.

I am going to go out on a limb here and say that you never played Ultima Online circa 1997. You don't seem to know a whole lot about the gaming community and the reasons why people liked old UO more than modern UO. A lot of these same reasons are what gave UO vets hope for Shroud of the Avatar, which is dwindling day by day.

 

Why are these misconceptions, can you please explain?

You provide no reasoning with your claim. You only provide statements which may or may not be true.

 

The game does have open pvp....just not non consensual....whats the issue with that?

If it is as popular as many of you say then the majority should flag themselves open pvp then you will all be happy.

 

And you provided no reasoning with your claim that the points I listed were not misconceptions. Thus I have no response for you. I wasn't really up for discussion, just stating my opinions.

 

I am not the one making the claim, you are. I stated that your claim is not based upon any reasoning. I did not say that they are not misconceptions, only that they may or not be true. The burden of proof is upon you, the one making the claim.

 

I'm not really out to prove myself, nor do I care to. I was just stating my opinion.

 

This is what im getting from this thread now.

"Your wrong . Im right."
"No your wrong and im right, what a minute why am i wrong?"
"I dont know but you are. Why am i wrong?"
"I dont know you just are. Why should i have to tell you?"

 

I just finding it interesting that he labeled them all as misconceptions. He is basically just saying that the poster is wrong without providing any reason as to why. Your post sums it up pretty nicely. He also took everything the original poster said out of context.

I am of the opinion that PvP adds to the fun of the game. The players who do not learn to fight back inevitably lose more, thus there should be some restrictions. Towns and cities protected by guards establish these "safe zones" so that there is not total chaos. I think that in itself is sufficient, not bubbles of protection that protect everyone from being attacked.

Jon's post:

-less freedom​

-less roleplaying abilitys​

-useless armor crafters/weapon crafter as profession to make money every day​

-ruined economy through botters​

-totally different from ultima online ruleset we loved, arent there enough themepark games without loot ??​

-meaningless pvp is boring​

-no loot cause inbalanced pvp (you have the best weapon , you dont loose it?) how unfair, there is absolutly no risk using this op weapon against less geared players.​

when you once get one of the hardcore gamers down , he remains op ??? and come back after a minute XD how realistic​

-no sense to have a house or to repeat dungeons (if you dont have the feeling i need crafting mats for at least a month of pvp in my house.​

Misconceptions:

"I can't role play unless pvp is completely open"
"People will bot and ruin the economy because pvp is not open"
"This rule set is not the ultima rule set that EVERYONE loved!!!"
"The PVP in Ultima Online was meaningful!!"
"There will be no penalties for death in SotA"


Imho, when I go back and play Ultima on Free servers, I am simply annoyed by PK's and lose interest very quickly. It's the l33t gamers that ruin games like this.