DarkStarr please consider making a policy before/when launching "the Vault" 25APR

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Spoon, Apr 8, 2019.

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What do you think? (multi choice)

Poll closed Apr 29, 2019.
  1. Portalarium needs an Official Rarity Policy

    52.2%
  2. Portalarium does not need an Official Rarity Policy

    8.8%
  3. Portalarium needs a Reserved list of things that never will be sold again

    49.3%
  4. Portalarium does not need a Reserved list of things that never will be sold again

    10.3%
  5. I think the Vault is a great idea, I will definitely buy expired stuff if it comes back

    30.1%
  6. I think the Vault is a bad idea, I will definitely need torches and pitchforks

    28.7%
  7. Arrghh, my valuable collection...... Nooooooooo.....

    16.2%
  8. There is no Spoon

    17.6%
  9. Portalarium please listen to Spoon, Save the Whales

    16.2%
  10. Portalarium please ignore Spoon, make corsets for the crown store

    9.6%
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  1. Spoon

    Spoon Bug Brigade - Bug Hunter

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    Amen. We are all hoping for the same thing.


    But in F2P the top 10% spenders is >50% of revenue. Hence why you need to consider herding the top strata.

    If the Vault does reskin+rename, then we don't have as much of an issue.
    If the Vault only have a tooltip with identical look&feel, then we are churning top strata to gain low strata conversion. That gives a short term boost and a long term disaster.

    Either way they would save time and retention by implementing the Rarity Policy+Reserved list.

    You give them similar obtainable perks in game but as consumables. For the CFV I already gave an example above of a 1year CFV which would fit the bill.

    But for the Artisan/Prosperity tools the value was that they are indestructible vs the standard NPC goods.
    Then secondarily they also give a tiny meticulous bonus. Now that bonus is actually crappier than the tool enchantments, so lets ignore that.
    What you want is something better than the NPC good while not as good as top tier.

    So what would be obvious would be to create tools with higher durability at a much higher price point, so that the per use sink goes up along with added conveniance. Where a logarithmic cost curve for a Fibonacci gain is usually good for wetware reasons. Simplified:
    100 durability tool for 100g that needs 1 engraving to enchant
    200 durability tool for 500g that needs 3 engravings to enchant
    500 durability tool for 50 crowns, that needs 8 engravings to enchant (assuming ~100gpc)​
    (note that I just pulled those out of my ...uhm... derriere, so one would of course have to fiddle with them more than I have done - for instance how much durability loss does a miner have by the hour, and whether or not the engravings need to be that steep they might only need 1/2/5 depending on metrics etc)
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2019
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  2. Toadster

    Toadster Avatar

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    One last point I will make on this would be around the Why this May be happening. And it is still around player retention and bringing in new players.

    Recently they dropped the website store with a few reasons... one of which was around the site and people getting to one page and just closing the site and never installing the game. My guess is a simple one, if I am looking for a game to play and i do some research to see what this F2P game is actually going to cost me. (they all have a cost) I would see prices that put most casual players going elsewhere. They moved that all in game and covered it with CoTO’s but I can Still go to the Rmt and see those ridiculous numbers for digital crack. 100’s of dollars for a town lot and 100’s more for a house to go on and no comparable options being craft able. So by creating this rare list the prices would never come down, the casual player would still get sticker shock from the RMt section and then it is gone along with all your digital crack. I think the real point here is to bring theses prices down on a lot more things and get people into the game.
     
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  3. By Tor

    By Tor Avatar

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    A lot of decisions that were made have lost many (possibly the majority) of the original, most high funding players. The vault is another choice that will lose even more of those players for the hope of finding new players. Isn't there a better way? If the game is good.. things like this shouldn't be needed. So what if there are some rare items out there? I would never play a game mad that I wasn't there at the beginning and didn't get exclusive items because I was too late. If this game can't stand on its own without sacrificing exclusive items promised by port to its customers... what future does it have? All this is doing is making many players continue to lose faith in this game that we all hope will thrive.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2019
  4. Browncoat Jayson

    Browncoat Jayson Legend of the Hearth

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    Even better would be to give the choice of convenience at economic cost.

    Simply made crafted indestructible tools, but with penalties. Fewer crits, longer crafting durations, or lower chances of success. So instead of running back for tools, you offset that by consuming more fuel, but there is only one gold tax instead of two.
     
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  5. Onyx

    Onyx Avatar

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    Really? What a novel concept. - I could not agree with you more. But they have been trying to reach that goal since day 1, albeit with limited success.
     
  6. Gia2

    Gia2 Avatar

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  7. Duke Ezekiel Cooper

    Duke Ezekiel Cooper Avatar

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    Howdy Ladies & Gents...
    Sorry I'm just now getting to the poker table...
    *Holsters pistol, sheaths boot knife, and pulls up a chair*
    "NED! BRING ME A BOTTLE OF YOUR MOST POTENT RATTLESNAKE JUICE AND MAKE IT SNAPPY, I'M IN A GD HURRY!"
    *Lights a cigar and leans over to @DarkStarr *
    "Found out today that I don't have COPD, so I'm gonna be smoking like a #33 steam locomotive, hope you don't mind." ;)

    Ahem... Let me go ahead and weigh in on this thread, since I've been tagged in it...
    @Duke Ezekiel Cooper is quite, because contrary to popular belief, I threw a ton of money at this game for one reason and one reason only... I ain't going nowhere... This is my last MMO, and if it augers into the ground, I'll be right there with it screaming YEE HAW! But I happen to know that it wont... ;)

    That being said... It don't make a damn to me what Port does... They have the BMC's full support... I'm not gonna gripe, I'm not gonna complain, and I'm not gonna threaten to pull support...

    As I said above... Contrary to popular belief... A lot of people think I got into this game to make money... Yea... That's true to an extent, but I've NEVER been under the illusion that making money was the ONLY thing this game was all about...

    My friends are here... Some of my family... Some of my old amigos from across the big pond play on here, and it costs a hell of a lot less than a plane ticket to spend some time with each other...

    All in all... I don't give a damn if Portalarium wants to sell everything they've ever made on the crown store... That's their business...
    At the end of the day...
    It's their world... I just helped build it... And I know they'll never forget that... I know it in my heart...

    Let em run business... BUT... From one online entrepreneur to another... You've been given the nod...
    You may want to start selling if you want get the premium on your rare items, if you haven't already.

    *Turns around in chair*
    "SHADE! You saucy little vixen. I could smell you from all the way across the room."
    "How bout you come on over here, sit on my lap and tell Ol' Zeke what you want for your friendship for half an hour."

    *Pulls a toke on the stogie with a big devilish grin*
    "Excuse me folks... I got a fire to go put out."

    *Looks at @DarkStarr and uses voodoo gaze while mystically waving hands*
    Gaming tables... Big, beautiful, handcrafted, gaming tables...
    Oooooo Whee!
    DONT IT SOUND COOL?!?!?!?! :)
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2019
  8. the Lacedaemonian

    the Lacedaemonian Avatar

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    Bringing new players to the game is very important. Alienating consistent supporters is something we should probably avoid. There are other ways to innovate. There are a LOT MORE ways to increase new investment and continuing investments.

    Cannibalization of shareholders' value is an unintelligent move. I'm not suggesting a miracle here, I'm suggesting a better effort at reinvigorating the feel and the fun that has become stagnant and disappointing.

    The roughly 1-200 people left who play consistently over a 7 day period are getting bored, annoyed, and otherwise finding new ways to lose interest.

    As a game designer, the burden is upon you @Chris , these other executives aren't carrying their weight.

    I can wait a while longer if Atos can get a fire up his backside to make the damn game fun again.
     
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  9. Duke Ezekiel Cooper

    Duke Ezekiel Cooper Avatar

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    I just cant see where this is the case...
    I got people coming from all over to our Graff Island market near the docks...
    I'm talking 100's of sales a day... Names I haven't ever seen before...
    New players bringing new players daily is the picture I'm getting...

    My fat ass wallet looks like new players are streaming in like someone rang a dinner bell at a soup kitchen in the middle of the 1930's...
     
  10. the Lacedaemonian

    the Lacedaemonian Avatar

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    Your fat ass wallet. I can't believe you said that out loud.

    What a lout. And to think you are a leader of a guild.

    I hope you have a successor lined up, because that's just rude.

    See you around, maybe in Ultima Online 2.
     
  11. Datendrache

    Datendrache Avatar

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    @Duke Ezekiel Cooper -- That was my favorite post of yours ever. :) Okay, I get it -- regardless of our thoughts, we aren't planning to uproot ourselves and turn our backs on our friends. and we do need to be conscientious of that fact.

    I'm not connecting the dots that say "From the Vault" = "New Players". Its being repeated lately on this thread but I haven't seen any connection. I'm trying to think of -any- item that would cause a New Player to start purchasing and really can't think of any.

    The only dots I've managed to connect with Vault sales are players who are engaged already. This market is basically:

    (Total Engaged Players - Total Engaged Players that Bought The Items Already) = Total Market

    Sincerely,

    Engineer
     
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  12. Duke Ezekiel Cooper

    Duke Ezekiel Cooper Avatar

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    Hehe... *Hands @the Lacedaemonian a tissue*
    Dry your eyes...
    I have the number to a hotline if you need it.
     
  13. Bom

    Bom Avatar

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    If it don't make a damn to you what Portalarium does then effectively you don't care whether they make good decisions or bad decisions and your opinion is irrelevant. I doubt you're being completely honest.

    The simple fact is, a company that makes money selling virtual assets kills itself through destroying the market value of its own virtual assets and those of all its customers.
     
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  14. Duke Ezekiel Cooper

    Duke Ezekiel Cooper Avatar

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    The simple fact is... A lot of people are on here complaining and raising hell about what the company is costing "THEM" in the secondary market...
    The simple fact is... The company can set the value of it's virtual assets to whatever it damn well pleases.
    The simple fact is... The sooner people accept that simple fact, the fewer ulcers they will have.
     
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  15. Thxforthememories

    Thxforthememories Avatar

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    The simple fact is... some people actually liked collecting rares and bought them expecting them to stay as such, with no care about reselling or secondary markets. Some people just like rares.
    The simple fact is... the company can set the value of its assets and bring back expired items whenever it damn pleases. But the simple fact is that people probably aren't going to buy anymore based on how the company has treated them in the past with respect items marketed as rare and expiring.
    These simple facts do not actually help the game and its future. But keep on believing they do.
     
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  16. Lord Andernut

    Lord Andernut Bug Brigade - Bug Hunter

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    This simple fact is Portalarium said the items would never be sold again - and they are now selling the items again. The reason some people are talking about the pricing of those items is that if Portalarium continues with the plan to sell previously expired items in their store against their previous promises not to, players are talking about ways to mitigate the impact on the players.

    Some people are complaining about the pricing of the vault, but the plain fact is the vault is just an extension of the store, and Portalarium is going back on it's word here. And if there's wiggle room in what they promised, this vault is certainly not in good faith as it has been proposed.

    This is a bad move by Portalarium, raising short term funds at the expense of alienating long term spenders. And whether a player bought 1 item or 1000 items, they bought it from Portalarium or another player, with the expectation that when Portalarium said never sold again, it would never be sold again.
     
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  17. Duke Ezekiel Cooper

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    And in both the quoted instances above...
    If anybody on this thread, expects Portalarium to NOT make decisions that will benefit the company first and the players second where the generation of new player base is concerned, then they haven't taken time to read the TOS and EULA in it's entirety.

    What company on the planet would give a damn about alienating a few hundred at the prospect of inheriting a few thousand?
    Come on guys... It's not hard math...
     
  18. Bom

    Bom Avatar

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    You're stating the obvious, but without recognizing the consequences. Of course, nobody likes to lose money on their purchases and, of course, Portalarium can do, "whatever it damn well pleases." However, the consequences of a company destroying the market value of its own assets and that of its customers, doing "whatever it damn well pleases," is going out of business.
     
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  19. Brass Knuckles

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    The only thing that matters to me is brining new players in to the game and the rares market can be damned lot deeds be damned. Once they have the base that will support the costs and maintenance of the game then they can work on a real rares market.

    My .02 you can stick that in your pipe and smoke it!
     
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  20. Thxforthememories

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    @Duke Ezekiel Cooper I know you love the EULA stating that Port can do whatever they want, and I do not dispute that.

    Where we disagree is that you seem to think these moves bring in new players and/or makes many more existing players happy. I think it penalizes long time and large backers and/or rares collectors, and those are not being replaced by any visible metrics. So Port is betting that pissing off some long time players will be more than offset by new sales. I don't think that will happen, just like it didn't happen the last time they did this - the math isn't hard...the team shrinks and is not replaced, offices gone, we can go on and on about signs that aren't so great - they have made this move in the past and it did not materially help, it may have actually hurt.
     
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