DarkStarr please consider making a policy before/when launching "the Vault" 25APR

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Spoon, Apr 8, 2019.

?

What do you think? (multi choice)

Poll closed Apr 29, 2019.
  1. Portalarium needs an Official Rarity Policy

    52.2%
  2. Portalarium does not need an Official Rarity Policy

    8.8%
  3. Portalarium needs a Reserved list of things that never will be sold again

    49.3%
  4. Portalarium does not need a Reserved list of things that never will be sold again

    10.3%
  5. I think the Vault is a great idea, I will definitely buy expired stuff if it comes back

    30.1%
  6. I think the Vault is a bad idea, I will definitely need torches and pitchforks

    28.7%
  7. Arrghh, my valuable collection...... Nooooooooo.....

    16.2%
  8. There is no Spoon

    17.6%
  9. Portalarium please listen to Spoon, Save the Whales

    16.2%
  10. Portalarium please ignore Spoon, make corsets for the crown store

    9.6%
Multiple votes are allowed.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Spoon

    Spoon Bug Brigade - Bug Hunter

    Messages:
    8,439
    Likes Received:
    23,674
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Sweden
    .


    I don't think that people are opposed to the Vault, I think that people are opposed to breaking trust.
    No one is against new players getting access to old assets.

    The two are not mutually exclusive as long as it is handled correctly. Hence my attempt to fix this by pointing out a viable solution in the form of the policy+reserved list.

    Yes, the Vault idea is a great concept for new players.
    Yes, we need to make sure that players trust the store and the company.

    One just needs to handle both of those goals at the same time. Which is kinda easy if you look around and copy something from someone successful who has already been through a similar situation. Its not like we are in uncharted territory.


    Lets look at a concrete example, please come with me into the tardis and lets go back in time.

    Back in 2013 Portalarium added some houses to the addon store. The question of exclusivity came up right away.
    https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/f...-store-be-obtainable-in-game.3557/#post-59296
    Starr said: "A small relative number of houses will be exclusive always while some might cycle out of exclusivity and become available in the game. We are not yet sure if the ones we are currently selling are going to be exclusive long term. Regardless there will always be a wide variety of homes in the game that can be purchased with in game currency even if some remain exclusive.

    We will also likely sell styles on the store but also offer variations on that same them in the game.
    "

    That is a great base for a rarity policy.
    A) Some stuff appear first in the store and then after a while cycle into being available in the game. So you are not paying for exclusivity instead you are paying for early access. That is fine.
    B) Some stuff are going to be exclusive long term. There you are indeed paying for exclusivity. That is fine.
    C) Some stuff that are exclusive, will have copies but in different styles. (Rename+Reskin). That is fine.

    Check out the immediate response from @Bowen Bloodgood correctly predicting the predicament right away.​
    "oh boy.. it might be exclusive but you're not sure.. and they're already being sold.."
    It isn't about whether or not things are exclusive or whether or not they will be sold again.
    But rather that the info needs to be transparent for the potential customers before they make their decision since it is part of that decision.​

    Starr responds "I understand the consternation the uncertainty is causing. We have made the call that anything in the add on store is exclusive. We will update the items in the store accordingly.

    We will offer very similar items in the game (i.e. tower, tree, etc.) but they will definitely be different in some way (color, materials, layout, etc.).
    "



    - - - - - - - - -

    So back then we can easily see the problems and the solution.

    The item purchased is exclusive but similar items in different style will become available again.


    A good way to republish old stuff for new players in the Vault while keeping trust is to do what was said.

    Take an old asset, keep the mesh and model, but give it new textures. Publish in the Vault under new name.

    Which has already happened a couple of times. For instance this is a 'rare' house:
    http://sotawiki.net/sota/Wood_&_Plaster_2-Story_with_Balcony_Village_Home
    [​IMG]
    While this is a version you can get in game:
    http://sotawiki.net/sota/Shingle-Roof_Two-Story_w/Balcony_Village_Home
    [​IMG]
    Yea the lower image isn't great since its night, but if you see it the roof tile texture are tinted a greenish hue, and the wall texture is semi brick-ish.

    That is the exact same model, the exact same mesh etc. The only difference is the texture and the name.
    That is fine.


    Problem solved without drama. The first house keeps trust be being kept exclusive, while the lower one makes the model kept in use and available for new players.

    - - - - - - - - - - -

    Now lets go back to the future, and back to where we are now.


    So this isn't about the old players trying to keep assets away from the new players.



    Instead the problem is that Portalarium seems to change the rarity concept and want to publish the first version in the Vault at a premium without the texture and name change. That is a big breach of trust.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2019
    K1000, Bom, _Twilight_ and 1 other person like this.
  2. Arkah EMPstrike

    Arkah EMPstrike Avatar

    Messages:
    4,362
    Likes Received:
    7,781
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Sounds like it would be a better idea if when they want to expire items, jsut to not tell anyone they are gonna expire? that'way it wont be percieved as a broken promise.

    I dunno much about the expired addon store items other than they were said to be expiring before hand (which doesnt mean they wont be back) but im pretty sure the bundle stuff in particular was actually said to be comming back in soem way at some point possibly.
     
  3. jschoice

    jschoice Avatar

    Messages:
    312
    Likes Received:
    635
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Chicagoland aka the burbs
    I wouldn't say I don't get it as much as I see it slightly differently. Speaking for myself, I invested a significant amount of cash not for the exclusive items but rather the concept of a game that was going to be ultima/UO like. I have 4,000 hours into this game, despite the bugs and at time frustrating systems. I see a tiny dev team that is super committed to making sure they develop 5 episodes that was promised. Although communication is not always the best they are honest about things and have incorporated more player feedback then 99% of dev teams out there .

    I feel like I am getting what I invested 4,000 and growing hours of entertainment.
     
    Alioth likes this.
  4. Arkah EMPstrike

    Arkah EMPstrike Avatar

    Messages:
    4,362
    Likes Received:
    7,781
    Trophy Points:
    153
    What was exclusive in the addon store???
     
  5. E n v y

    E n v y Avatar

    Messages:
    4,783
    Likes Received:
    13,387
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    England
    So I get where you are coming from and if you feel like you are getting value then that's great.

    For myself, I currently have 6849 hours in-game and based upon the current state of the game and decisions that are taking place that will further annoy and erode the playerbase, I very much doubt I will ever get to the point where I feel have have obtained value (I view value at the point where you hit 1 hour of play for every $1 spent).

    Yes I understand the team is small.........however after 5 years of hearing about it, I have to say the excuse begins to wear thin as the list of broken promises and failings grow (many of which have NOTHING to do with the size of the team). For example, there are many people who still haven't received their physical items........a while back (just to prove a point) I went through all of the Standup and counted approximately 81 days where shipping was involved in some way shape or form.......it's disgraceful.
     
    Bom, Amelli and Cordelayne like this.
  6. Dhanas

    Dhanas Avatar

    Messages:
    566
    Likes Received:
    1,045
    Trophy Points:
    63
    My point is why do that? Do players take advantage of this or just Port?
    I personaly haven't any rare/exclusive so it doesn't affect me directly but i can feel the pain of those people who spent money or played this game in early access, when it was far to be playable, the prizes/awards they received to play/ spend during that time totaly lost their value ( not talking just about $ value but about value of the item in general).
    What i am asking myself is, people are asking for a better quest system, more pve contents, crafting spec, more pvp contents like Castle siege and faction, and so on, why the hell they are working or planning to put a Vault that just upset most of the player and risk to make more people leave.
    Is the goal still raising playerbase or having more money in port's finances without any advantage for players ? If it is the second well their strategy is totaly wrong: more active players means more money for them.
     
    Bom and Vero like this.
  7. Weins201

    Weins201 Avatar

    Messages:
    7,127
    Likes Received:
    10,969
    Trophy Points:
    153

    N A I L E D and as you said it appears to be the second is holding the priority. Which in the end will = no players and no money. As they are not going to raise player base, may they hook a few more new players at the FTW concept and get some $ out of them. But the loss of current players and their continued $ input is going to end up with a (-) result.

    this is what they think, were we are wrong, and then they will make more $.

    Soo it shows a lack of concern for retaining current players and a hope that new players will offset the loss.

    Good luck
     
    Bom and Dhanas like this.
  8. Greyfox

    Greyfox Avatar

    Messages:
    1,644
    Likes Received:
    5,828
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    USA EST
    Current players won't pay more money for "rares" they missed the first time because they now know those items are not rare, now or ever. This decision will destroy the already struggling SOTA market. Virtual goods are only rare with imposed rarity since virtual goods are infinite by definition.

    Portalarium is subscribing to AOC (Alexandria Ocasio Cortez) economic theories. They should be implementing Milton Friedman policies.

    Fix the game and more people will come. Reselling items previously promised to never be sold again is very short sighted and even more dangerous to the future of SOTA than cow farts.
     
    Bom, Astirian, Woodchuck and 6 others like this.
  9. E n v y

    E n v y Avatar

    Messages:
    4,783
    Likes Received:
    13,387
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    England
    [​IMG]

    Will obviously become the next in-game emote. :eek::eek:
     
    K1000, Astirian and By Tor like this.
  10. Spoon

    Spoon Bug Brigade - Bug Hunter

    Messages:
    8,439
    Likes Received:
    23,674
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Sweden
    Early on? Most of it. Back then lots of things was sold as if exclusive/unique or last chance. But with the caveat that new similar items could return (ie reskin and rename).
    Just pop over here
    http://sotawiki.net/sota/Update_of_the_Avatar
    and make a search on "last chance exclusives".
    Then scroll back through the years.


    With very few having limited numbers, like the oracle head
    https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/?p=33222
    "Be one of an exclusive few who own these Oracle Statue Heads that you can proudly display on your in game property. So far explorers have only unearthed 1000 of these, so you better get one before they run out."
     
    Bom, Arkah EMPstrike and By Tor like this.
  11. Spoon

    Spoon Bug Brigade - Bug Hunter

    Messages:
    8,439
    Likes Received:
    23,674
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Sweden
    @Greyfox

    Could we keep american politics out of the forums? They make very little sense in context.
     
    moko, K1000, Rada Torment and 5 others like this.
  12. majoria70

    majoria70 Avatar

    Messages:
    9,746
    Likes Received:
    23,848
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    United States
    Besides since exclusive items are being sold which they should not be I agree and is a mistake. I feel the best solution this time and for the future would be to make pledge and exclusive items have a different mesh or color to make it distinct from vault items. This should happen going forward so no exclusive items are sold but yet they can be repurposed to look a bit different. Such as the case with the ornate items. @DarkStarr
     
    Bom likes this.
  13. macnlos

    macnlos Avatar

    Messages:
    367
    Likes Received:
    1,159
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Amen!
     
  14. Vladamir Begemot

    Vladamir Begemot Avatar

    Messages:
    6,124
    Likes Received:
    11,904
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Gender:
    Male
    I don't think this has anything to do with money, as the quantity of goods in the crown store is large. Either it's generating or it's not.

    It's about the giant screw up of expiring the majority of good homes. GIANT screw up. Right before giving everyone land.

    So how about limiting it to the housing? Make second generation, slightly weathered looks for all the viking houses, etc. A bit of variety would be nice anyway, as the current line of identical Viking 1 Story's in Estgard look ridiculous.

    And then how about making good on the crafting side of things and take the same model, give it a rustic look, and let us craft it?

    Problem solved, fiasco averted, good feelings as players find out they can craft more than 5 decent looking homes or buy a nicer version, or seek out an expired fancy version.
     
  15. infernal

    infernal Avatar

    Messages:
    40
    Likes Received:
    81
    Trophy Points:
    8
    so what your saying is them protecting your value even tho it gains them nothing is Milton Friedman and them prioritizing their profits and gains first is AOC. you may want to think about that some more.
     
  16. Duke Gréagóir

    Duke Gréagóir Legend of the Hearth

    Messages:
    5,144
    Likes Received:
    10,939
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Location:
    Dara Brae
    Great idea!!
     
    Bom likes this.
  17. Woodchuck

    Woodchuck Avatar

    Messages:
    613
    Likes Received:
    829
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Dear devs,

    Please make sure you put black holes for sale in the Vault. i would very much like to buy one.

    [​IMG]
     
  18. Arkah EMPstrike

    Arkah EMPstrike Avatar

    Messages:
    4,362
    Likes Received:
    7,781
    Trophy Points:
    153
    we jsut blew up in teamspeak tonight over this black hole stuff :D VERY exciting!

    Sorry for off topic, i agree with the replica idea. change the color, call it replica, and exclusivity is retained.
     
    Astirian and By Tor like this.
  19. Toadster

    Toadster Avatar

    Messages:
    858
    Likes Received:
    1,736
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Read it just never been intimidated enough not to post my opinion. I’m sure you probably did stifle some people from disagreeing though.

    Maybe I’ll get to the rest later... it was too long.
     
  20. Spoon

    Spoon Bug Brigade - Bug Hunter

    Messages:
    8,439
    Likes Received:
    23,674
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Sweden
    Intimidated? Why on earth Novia would you be intimidated by that? A please don’t insult people if you want them to stay with explanation why would that be intimidating???
    o_O
    Could someone explain that one to me because I genuinely don’t get it?


    I started the topic, in response to that you made a statement, and in response to your statement I wrote a statement. Please feel free to follow that up with as many responses as you want and I will do the same, just like everyone else.
    It’s what forums are all about.

    Also I might smother a topic in too much text and too much boring detail but the main reason the op has the poll and the Anti/Pro options is that everyone should feel that they can agree or disagree regardless whether they want to write long posts about it or not.

    That way one side might dominate the responses but the poll could go wherever the majority wants.

    Now why would I add that poll like that if I wanted to intimidate people to think like me?
     
    By Tor, Jaesun, Woodchuck and 2 others like this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.