DOOM? I Think Not.

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Bayard, Jun 21, 2018.

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  1. smack

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    You're right, we don't know what the metrics are, in terms of average active player, peak players, unique players over time and cumulative, etc. So my question about the marketing was to ask why that failed to keep those paid backers from continuing to play. I was simply positing that perhaps if they understood that, they might better understand why it's keeping new players from coming in.
     
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  2. Bowen Bloodgood

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    None of that says as much as you might think. Players online at any given time does not reflect numbers of actual people 'playing' altogether. If 600 played one day and another 550 played the next.. is that 600 players or 1,150? It's a pretty big discrepancy and there's no way for you to know.

    Forum poles also, are rarely if ever a good representation of the player base. Rather they are representative of some active forum users who are a very small fraction of actual players. I'd call it an inkling more than a good idea.
     
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  3. sake888

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    I believe DS 50k active players for a healthy game requirement did not specify that the player count needed to be new players. It was projected that a sufficient percentage of any 50k base would provide enough revenue via the store if I remember correctly.
     
  4. Bowen Bloodgood

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    My point is apples and oranges. Marketing only brings people in. It doesn't keep people.. and revenue isn't raised by people playing. So I'm not seeing the connection here. If every one ever backed the game was JUST playing.. it still wouldn't be raising any money.
     
  5. Bowen Bloodgood

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    Of course, but then that number would then be a guestimate based on a % they think will purchase and average of X amount from the store. But marketing isn't what keeps people playing.. which I suppose may be the point being made or perhaps I missed something.
     
  6. fonsvitae

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    Portalarium spoke re population some months before launch stating that Steam accounts for 20 to 30% of total persons playing.

    That puts us at just under 1k population (being generous and not counting alts). If population hovers over or below that by a generous +/- 100 (10% of total), we are still looking at a game that draws barely 1k players in the following context:

    a) a launch where, 90 days post, we are losing and not gaining in population
    b) though 60k+ persons have bought into this game over the past 5 years, 90 days post launch only sees a 1k population of players

    Any way you slice it, we have a low population at a point in time where every rabbit has been pulled out of the bag and 60 times the actual audience paid for advance tickets but don't care to show up to the magic show.

    This is the real situation; it can be spun like a dreidel all night and day long, but it still is no more and no less than what it is.
     
  7. smack

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    I'd disagree that marketing is only used for customer acquisition. But the point I'm raising is that sales perhaps aren't low because of their existing marketing campaigns, but perhaps it's because of the product itself. Which is why the quote from the article was interesting. Your existing customers also market the game for you through word of mouth advertising, reviews, blog posts, public feedback, etc. I understand your point about new revenue, but you're not going to get much new revenue from modified campaign strategies if the product itself is still bad.
     
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  8. Derium

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    The more you play, the more you want to buy stuff, that's just basic understanding.

    As for the steam numbers, I already said we will toss all of that aside, then I'm not using a forum poll to strengthen my argument, there's really no reason to tell me why I shouldn't use it =p I wouldn't anyways, I already look at Steam numbers daily across games (I'm a numbers nerd for that). Admittedly the poll here said more users didn't use steam than most games end up being, but of course that's easily explained by most of us here on the forums got into the game before it was on Steam, again, look at EVE.

    But all of that is just stuff to put aside. Even under optimal conditions of only 10% are steam users, that's still only 2k players per day, Second Life a sandbox game that's "dead" to a lot of people right now has 37,000 players online, even if 50% of those are bots that's still 10x what Sota has, a game that launched less than three months ago.

    Again, you can say it's all circumstantial and not comparable. However, the issue is you cannot find anything to compare it to or assume on that is actually good news, only bad.
     
  9. Derium

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    IMHO they need to pull an ESO.

    Rebuild the game and relaunch it with one Hell of a ad campaign. It brought ESO from death to seriously one of the best MMOs I've ever played.

    Listen to what the voices are saying, any forum or article you go to it's "the graphics suck" "This isn't UO2" or "looks like a cash grab". fix what the majority of the negative people are say, rebrand and relaunch. Otherwise, we will just have to check the charts every week and see if the numbers continue to decline =/
     
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  10. fonsvitae

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    Pool your monies and hire Raph Koster.
     
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  11. redfish

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    Personally, I think there's a problem in the loss of a unifying vision, which has affected both the game and the marketing.

    I mean, I would ask this. We had 20,000+ Kickstarter backers who were attracted to the original Kickstarter vision. That's almost halfway there. How many of those backers recognize that vision in the game, or in the marketing for the game?

    Meh, not really.

    People have all sorts of nitpicks, some of which are valid, some of which I personally think aren't. But even supposing they were all correct, still, when people find the core concept of a game fun and the core vision compelling, they ignore all of the minor problems and things they don't like and play anyway. People don't stop playing a game because the combat animations aren't as great as they could be. They don't stop playing a game because the graphics aren't as great as they could be. They don't stop playing a game because the UI needs usability improvements. They don't stop playing a game because XP gain is slower than they like.

    Its a big picture kind of thing, and when people say "oh yea, if only x, y, and z were fixed, people would be playing all the time and the game would be a great success", I don't think they really know what they're talking about.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2018
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  12. Derium

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    and you're 100% right. but the problem is you need to lure them into the game though. With terrible ads, the claim it's pretty much UO2 out the window and the game looks well over 10 years old, how do we attract the people?
     
  13. redfish

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    You want my opinion?

    People play games that look a lot older, first of all.

    Retro games have popularity, cell-shaded games have popularity. Aesthetics is more important than datedness of graphics tech. And when your graphics tech is dated, you better make up for it with aesthetics. As someone who has always been very much into the aesthetics of games, I've also always been a believer that the graphics aren't so bad, but the UI makes it look bad because its not very elegant and distracts from the game, and some of the add-on store store stuff makes it look bad, because it makes the game feel tacky. I don't think gamers are looking for snowmen decos that are higher fidelity and take advantage of all the features of DirectX 12.

    As for not being UO2, it pretty much is UO2, except for not being open PvP and having an overworld map. In as much as the devs want PvP players, they do need to create some meaningful PvP mechanics, I agree with that. But if PvP is to suck, then the game could be a success on PvE, which it isn't either.

    Anyway, my advice would be the devs should just focus on creating good, quality game, fill in all the gaps from the Kickstarter vision, bring it closer to that vision in spirit, market the product in a way that they would find appealing if they were a potential buyer seeing the ads themselves, and that convey the game's vision, etc, etc, and the game will shape up. If it all adds up in the end, then some of the minor grudges and nitpicks some people will have will go away, even if they don't like every aspect of the game.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2018
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  14. sake888

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    Are the things that are suggested(again) even possible at this stage? With less staff and far less money available, how can there be a realistic revamp even if the decision is is made to do so?
     
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  15. Derium

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    Well, It seems the total amount raised has been removed from the site? But if the basic framework is already there and Garriott either believes in the game or needs it to stay afloat, he could back it with a mil or two for the revamp. I don't think he's ever said how much he put into the game, so I'm not sure if he's willing to put more into it or not.
     
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  16. Elwyn

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    Those are accounts, not individuals. The "whales" may have ten or twenty or more accounts each so that they could buy more pledges. Those also include people who supported it for the single-player game, and people who still haven't started playing yet, like a friend of mine who has a basic Founder pledge. Maybe I'll nudge him this week.

    From my point of view, I can't see any of the advertising. Apparently some ads were put on Facebook (which I do not use), but they look like ads for cheesy mobile games.

    I still believe that gamers in general have little or no awareness of SotA. Or they might remember it from people complaining about it and have written it off. Or they might have played it once a year or more ago and wrote it off as though that was the final state of the game.

    So what can I do about it? I'm going to figure out what it takes to do streaming, maybe that can help a little.

    Yes. The metrics they need are how many individual players (humans, not accounts) play regularly every month. Concurrent players is only a general indicator of this.

    I've played Goat Simulator a little bit, it rocks. Just not enough for me to get Steam.

    Ah yes, mmorpg.com, where they went apespit over having a second telethon this month, but nobody bothered to mention that it was because Starr was going to be on a long vacation during the normal day and had it only four days after the monthly release. Then he quickly found out that a lot of players didn't even realize the stream had happened, so he had Chris do a make-up day. Yeah, that mmorpg.com. I would compare them to reddit, but I avoid reddit and have no basis for comparison.
     
  17. Derium

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    Something I REALLY want to know, is if they filed their SEC report correctly, they spent $121,056 in 2017 and $36,108 in 2016 for sales & marketing (Page 25 of the report). I'd assume since they spent that much in pre-launch times, they should be spending a ton more right now. But that leads me to wonder how much.

    "The Company currently requires approximately $300,000 a month to sustain operations."
    "As of April 17, 2018, the Company has approximately $394,073 in cash on hand."
    (bottom of page 16 of the report).

    I know they just let about half of their staff go, so that gives them a bit more breathing room. i just wonder if this is why we are seeing ads ran with typos and broken links, if they are having someone who doesn't understand demographic targeting do it. for example, I already like the SotA page on Facebook, so when they run the ads, they really should run them where they do NOT target people who already like the page. Because every day they are paying money to make me aware of their game.

    SEC report: https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1522456/000152245618000001/portalariumformcar.pdf
     
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  18. sake888

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    Did you read the article in the link?
     
  19. Elwyn

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    Yes, a few days ago.
     
  20. Blackghost

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    Agreed but this is not the case here. Layoffs happened because the game is not doing well, money wise. The game is also not completed, so why would you fired half of your team?
    The given reason was not , we fired a bunch of people because we don't need their service anymore.

    They fired them because they can't afford to pay them.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2018
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