Ethnocentric/ Quasi-religious Content in SotA

Disclaimer: I am a non-White, non-European, American atheist, so yeah, I have a bit of a bias, and no, this is not meant to be a troll or start a flamewar.

I understand the turkey caller and reindeer caller are vanity items and are optional for a player to purchase. By themselves, they don't necessarily constitute a direct reference to holidays such as Thanksgiving or Christmas, respectively. However, given that there is a Holiday tree being worked on, one can easily surmise that a particular cultural bias is being espoused, celebrated, and merchandized. One of my questions is: why aren't menorahs, dradels, Eid-ul-Adha sacrificial knives, Holi and Diwali color powders, lanterns and candles, etc. being sold as vanity items as well.

When considering the above, it becomes a bit problematic, doesn't it? Yes, I'm talking about fluff items, but are others' mythologies irrelevant in the face of one of many mythologies? Is this game called "Shroud of Turin: Forsaken Jesus"? Should not vanity items or in-game items be representative of the mythologies of the game world and its lore? Cannot more imaginative ways of coming up what basically are elaborate solstice and equinox rituals be put forth that don't have links to real world counterparts?

On the bit about ethnocentrism, look, not everyone who will play this game is from the United States or Canada; build the game for an international audience. Celebrate humanity, not Pax Americana. Better yet, build a world to which one can escape from one's own for a little while.

 

Decorating Holiday Trees actually pre-dates Christianity and is central for many religions... Ask any Wiccan you know.

 

Richard and Tracy actually asked the community for any and all types of cultural rituals or festivals that they can learn from and perhaps bring into the game. I doubt anyone bothered. If you like, feel free to post some more ideas about how those uniquely interesting rituals or festivals can add to the backstory and lore of New Britannia.

Snippet from this post:

RG:
That makes me think of something too. You know one of the things I, I'm not sure how many of our current players remember that right after we launched Ultima Online, right through its launch process there was woman named Amy Jo Kim who is a game designer in her own right but also a writer. She was writing a book about online communities. And so she had done a lot of research not about Ultima Online but a bunch of others.
And I actually like very much many of the assertions she made about what makes a good online community. And she broke it down into things like you know community comes together for a purpose. A community comes together, reinforces its bonds to things like rituals that they perform as a group. You know that's a, whether it's a coming of age party or a birthday or a wedding or a graduation.
You know those are all things that'll bond the community together etc. But one of the things, one of the ways you all as our player base could really help us out that I've taken away a lot out of this dialog we've begun with some of the players. Is sharing with us, even real world rituals that are fascinating or interesting in their pageantry or in their meaning as to how to bond the community together.
Because a lot of those are things that we, you know, if it's a wedding you know we can support it just by providing wedding dresses and you guys can make all the rest of it happen on your own without difficulty. You know there's this weird Green Man festival in England that I've been looking at all this, or the Thistle Man. You know where these guys go cover themselves in thistles and walk very awkwardly through the town kind of suffering for a day.
And without regard to whether we would use any one particular, one or others of these, hearing the more of these are the kind of things we hear about, I think that more opportunities will be to inspire something that we can do in the game that can add this richness, this pageantry, this bonding of the community to itself that we can provide you all tools to support either on your own or we can actually make events and rituals in the game directly through game mechanics.
So anyway if you all know anything like that it would be great to have you guys start threads on about in the forums or have you send in to Gina, FireLotus, just ideas that you have for rituals.

TH:
Yeah it's very helpful actually to us because all of these things that have evolved, all of these rituals that we find in the real world have evolved for a purpose. And because they have evolved for a purpose, they're organic, they're natural, they have meaning and they come from somewhere. They're not just, they're generally not just made up.They actually have a root in some cultural requirement or some cultural tradition that they have.
And those kinds of things are already natural. This is part of the process that we talk about sometimes in fantasy stories in particular where we like model real world things. And this modelling that we do makes the world more real. So anything along those lines that you can contribute to this world is going to make it all that much more real and that much more natural.

 

Look, there is no right answer to this question/complaint because any way it's put it can be twisted to make people look bad.

These holiday items they have added are accepted world wide as secular holiday items. A Christmas tree is not considered a religious symbol in modern day practice. People all around the world of all different religious and beliefs put them up, so I'm not sure how you came to the conclusion you did.

 

One of my Facebook friends follows the Norse gods. He'd quite happily comment on this tradition.

 

Though I don't really mind either way, I think that it is very interesting that despite all the background that goes into games and the changes in season, etc. no game company has ever done away with our holidays and exclusively created their own to be used exclusively for their game.

Who needs a Christmas Tree in Britannia when you have Dr. Cats Scratch Pole of the Vernal Equinox which is the traditional decoration for this time of year? What about The Day of Valor celebration or Paws Liberation Day? I know they are Ultima references and this is not Ultima, but still this argument doesn't even need to exist if a new and interesting system of holidays is created based on the game lore.

Edit: Think of the crafting opportunities for decorations of new holiday items! Collecting seasonal resources to change supply and demand. For instance The Day of Valor may require the creation of Olive Branch Wreaths for homes and Olive Branch 'Crowns'. Suddenly olive branches are in demand, where for the rest of the year, they are kindling. Just a few thoughts.

 

https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/f...w-britannia-cultural-festivals-holidays.3948/

Good thread about SotA Holidays, just brainstorming. Perhaps provide some constructive ideas in there.

 

True. [and I'm a Christian]

 

Ditto.

But I can recognize that said tradition is not unique to one religion in particular. And indeed, it is arguably - in its modern public expression - largely devoid of any religious or spiritual significance.

 

"Lighten up, Francis." - Sgt Hulka

 

I don't want religions in the real world, regardless of what they are, in this game.

 

Interesting thread. Christmas trees are strange symbols, in that they don't really belong to Christianity (as FL hinted), and even if they were, most of their sacred value has been washed away by the marketization of them (as Codex was getting at). Still, I think OP has a point. In every MMO I've played, the special Santa Hats, Coal, Present Boxes, Stockings, Christmas Trees, and other holiday items were always the items I kept locked away in a chest, because they don't fit at all in the game, and seeing all of Britain lit up with them only serves to remind players that their world isn't a world at all, but merely a virtual game environment nested within the real world.

 

Of course, conversely, the fact that multiple Earthbound religions have held up the festively decorated tree as a means of marking the significance of a particular season in turn at least opens up the possibility that human cultures on other worlds might adopt the same symbol for similar use.

 

I totally agree with the sentiment of the OP... with some of the buzz, including Bowen's thread (linked above by Ronan), I was getting quite excited to have an independent culture with independent holidays in New Brittannia.

That said... I don't think there's anything wrong with acknowledging real-world holidays, as long as they aren't referenced directly, particularly in regards to fluff items. I do think it would be a fabulous idea to include references to "non-European/American/Christian" holidays, such as that which the OP pointed out - menorahs etc. A little table shrine with incense and bowls for offerings? A nice little sand and rock garden... with the decoration mode you could even rearrange it.

 

Please,why not just enjoy this time of the year, what every your culture may be. Equality is in your heart,and humanity is loving others.
In short if given a gift,be happy in the giving,try not to find fault in the gift.

 

The real question here is why the racism against Elves, if we can "magically travel to a magic land" then why can't we embrace our Elven Heratige...then we'd all be equals...problem solved!

The Elf haters are really taking their discrimination and abuse too far with this anti-Elf aggression and oppression.

 

This is entirely true, but for pragmatic purposes, you have to assume that a large majority of players will see a Christmas Tree as such, and not as a pagan ornament, or a secular celebration of the seasons, or a symbol for that old festival Dies Natalis Solis Invictis.

 

So it's open for each player to interpret as s/he wants to. Nothing wrong with that.

 

As long as we celebrate St. Patricks Day, I'm good. ♣

 

No way, bro...they don't even try to play that one off as pagan.