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extremely disappointed............

Discussion in 'Release 10 Feedback' started by brand0o, Sep 25, 2014.

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  1. Sir_Hemlock

    Sir_Hemlock Avatar

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    I lost faith in Richard Garriot's ability to make sound development decisions when he implemented Elves and Random Deck combat. That is where our paths diverged. I will never, ever contribute another cent to SotA or any other project they lead. I say that as an Ultima fan since 1989. FINISHED!

    Now I understand they have abandoned the great magic school names such as 'theurgy', 'necromancy' etc? Why? They were intuitive to me!

    After briefly testing R10 it struck me that the entire game should have been a top-down view akin to the overland map. Ah well...
     
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  2. Undelivered

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    Honestly in my opinion this isn't anything like WoW. The complexity is what makes it unique however it is not that complex, its a lot of fun it reminded me a lot of WoW. So for you to criticize that it plays like wow because of one thing the is preposterous. Is SoTa going to be different? Yes Have you tried pvp? It is a lot of fun! Lastly remember when you logged in and it said the game is under construction? Holy poop! Its still in pre alpha! Pay attention to small details...
     
  3. Wagram

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    Don't forget RG is a WOW player and loves a lot of the game's concepts, it's a pity he didn't go for the full world to explore and just stuck the Dungeon's and Player towns in instances, then you at least have a choice if you want to use them.
     
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  4. redfish

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    @wagram, why do you think the idea of a dual-scale map came from WOW?
     
  5. Wagram

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    read my post I said why didn't he go for the full world map with instanced dungeons & Player towns.
    I've never played WOW but I think its a full world map
     
  6. Ristra

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    They (Chris) covered the reasons why pretty thoroughly at the beginning of the Kickstarter.
     
  7. redfish

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    Okay, but I don't think the decision has much to do with what other MMOs are doing at all.

    Just for information here, its a debate Richard Garriott was entertaining as far back as 1995, about the same year Ultima Online entered development. Fans were upset with Ultima VIII, so he opened a debate on some online services about the direction of future games, and released a text file with the U8 patch called fans.txt.

    A snippet,

     
  8. Wagram

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    Maybe but that version never got made.

    And the original by RG :
    The first version was as it was conceived of by Ultima creator Richard Garriott during his initial planning for the third Ultima trilogy as Origin began to work on Ultima VII. The original concept for the third Ultima trilogy appeared to have focused on the Avatar's conflict with the enigmatic Guardian, each game taking place in a different world: Ultima VII in Britannia, Ultima VIII in the conquered world of Pagan, and Ultima IX in the Guardian's homeworld itself. Also, Ultima 9 was planned to be built on the isometric Ultima 8 engine.

    Version 4 is what they made and that was a full 3D world with fully realized polys and textures were you could manipulate the environment. Maybe not a great game but cutting edge game engine for the time.
     
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  9. redfish

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    Yea and disappointing in many respects, and the 3D environment was part of the disappointment. The world seemed very small, and you could sail around it in a few minutes. The walk between cities, where you could walk between them, felt incredibly short. In general, the Ultima worlds started feeling smaller and smaller after they introduced a mono-scale map.

    There are advantages to single-scale maps, I enjoy exploring them and getting lost in the woods, for instance. But there are advantages to dual-scale, and I think RG has been thinking about that for a long time already, and wasn't pushed in that direction by the other MMOs out there, or is betraying something he believed in.

    Also, a lot of the UO players say they like a seamless world, but then you always see support for things like rune-books and so on, and the seamless world becomes meaningless.
     
  10. Wagram

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    Yes you could but it was a SPRPG.
    But other MMO's use them because that what's the majority want. If you have Played LotRo you know what a big world can offer.
    True rune books were the norm for a lot of UO players, but that was down to their choice, but you had to train the skills to use it, Fast travel home is here now and no skill required.
    You can't make that choice in SotA as no world to explore, and of course they will want rune books or some other form of fast travel to take them straight into the hex they want to cut out the map.
     
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  11. adaamhimself

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    And locking us into tiny little hexes is supposed to make the world feel bigger? Dual scale is just a cheap solution rather than actually putting the work into making a decent seamless world. Aside from this obviously biased fanbase, I highly doubt you will see any gamers clamouring for a solution like this.
     
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  12. redfish

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    I have played LotRo, and in fact logged in just a day ago to see what new was happening. I traveled between Bree and Hobbiton pretty quickly, like it was nothing.

    I play a game called UnReal World more than any MMO, its a hardcore survival based RPG that has a dual-scale map. My comments have nothing to do with bias in favor of the dev team. In that game, you can also walk between locations on the zoomed-in scale, so you don't ever have to use the travel map if you don't want to. However, its also extremely silly unless you're tracking down a hunt, foraging for herbs and berries, or are running from something. Still, I think it would be cool if they could make each hex in SOTA have a unique scene so you could travel between. A problem in SOTA instancing is that a lot of the scenes feel small and the boundaries on them feel arbitrary, and you don't want to see the same scene over and over in different hexes. It would cool if they could figure out how to do procedural generation of scenes where the edges all align with eachother , so they could accomplish this without having to custom draw each scene if they don't want to.
     
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  13. adaamhimself

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    I'm not against retaining the overland map as a fast travel map. It has the potential to add an amazing level of dynamic content to the game. The potential for encounters on the oceans and travel between continents is definitely interesting. That said, as the primary way of travelling between instances it's a travesty. If the devs think they can trick people into thinking they're in a large, expansive world with this they've made a huge miscalculation. All the arbitrary and invisible barriers, small scenes, and linear gameplay will do nothing but piss players off and turn off potential backers. Here, we're going to force you through a small mountain pass that conveniently funnels you into a play area we've deliberately designed. That isn't obvious at all!

    Even something like the way towns in Fallout 3 were handled would be much preferable to the way the system is now.
     
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  14. rune_74

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    I think if they left the map as it is now, then yes it would suck as it has no interactivity.

    Now, add random encounters, weather etc....it becomes more a part of the game.

    But, I'm just a obviously biased supporter so why would my opinion matter;)
     
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  15. StrangerDiamond

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    you're the whole fanbase Rune :)
     
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  16. Wagram

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    That's a point to point ride on a horse plus you crossed from one of the 30+ maps to the next with no load screen, you can travel across all the maps no load screens a fully connected world.
    You could also have stopped gathered, PvE, explored no load screen unless you enter a dungeon, then a 5 sec load to Very big dungeons no hidden load screens to connect the next box.
     
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  17. Joviex

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    Indeed. I also just logged in because of the free giveaway event this weekend.

    I went from rivendell all the way back to bree on horseback, stopped in the trollshaws to drop off a few quests from toon #9723495792 just cause, checked out some new sidebar stuff in the lonelands, then rolled up to south bree running up through to the north gate.

    Not a single load screen (like its been since 2007) and it took the normal 15 minutes of straight riding time.

    Could I have jumped a "fast point"? Sure. But then you miss the most important part - the journey.

    I'd still be in LotrO honestly, if it was not a super grind fest @ 60+. Crafting could be better, but the visuals, the open world, the lack of load screens.... I once ran from Thorin's Gate all the way to The Walls of Moria. 25 minute ride, non-stop, no loads.

    If that is not open enough...
     
  18. Greymarch

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    Personally I vastly prefer an open world like Skyrim or Morrowind. I love exploring and finding hidden things out there (like that stump in Ultima VII).

    I'm not expecting that in Shroud however, as it was clearly stated in the Kickstarter and promotional trailers that this is what they were going to do. I may as well complain that the new Street Fighter doesn't let me run around the whole city Double Dragon style.

    The only thing I may suggest to people is giving anything you plan to Kickstart or pay money for a thorough review before you decide to throw large amounts of cash at it. So far this is pretty much exactly (well mostly- decks not so much) what I expected this game to look like when I backed it originally.
     
  19. StrangerDiamond

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    It's true it was stated we would not work an open world but rather focus on "the rest"...

    thats what we're waiting for, the rest :) it should make us forget about not having an open world right ?

    Of course LOTR online has bigger funding than we had... much bigger, yet I never could justify those high prices for games since I made alot myself, I mean portalarium makes sense... but millions of dollars like that every reinstallement of the game ? thats basically a city for homeless kids you just could have built there, it better be damned worth it...

    And on the side you got people making free games... so you better be competitive.

    Thats why at first I was always saying to keep isometric and thus have less lag and an open world... I know thats insulting to the graphic artists in a way but it still needs to be said... theres so much trouble coming with 3-d ESPECIALLY in a industry standard VM/cloud architecture that it seems strange of a decision because most of King Gariott's fanbase dosen't mind about the graphics, the ultimas we loved weren't the most graphically superb, UO wasn't that impressive either... yet thats your niche.

    What in hell made king Gariott think it would be wise to leave such a emotionally involved and passionate niche is beyond me, it really is.

    I meditate alot, not alot of things are beyond me.

    Really its kind of sad I have to say this, but it IS a disapointment street fighter 2 had no story scrolling mode. Nintendo right now is kind of waking up with concepts I was trying to push when I was 10 years old... it took them 10 years to listen to my feedback and they lost billions (including thousands from myself) here's hoping portalarium listens faster... in super smash bros its now a given that you will have an AMAZING storymode AND a battle mode.

    I'm sorry to say it to lazy programmers and "routine" people around the world... but this is something that is fun to do and that some real artists are doing because they have a grip on their hard and cold reality, once you got your engine all programmed and nice and ready... you can do whatever you want FOR FUN. Have you seen however how rarely this is done ?

    Indeed, often you'll see the company making a scheme to require you to buy something else instead of reusing the same GOOD engine, it was worse back then, its more subtle now. We're faced with accepting the devs have their heap of work (and its true in a sense) and that when they get home they're like wow that I need to relax and do yoga all evening make sure I don't touch a computer again this is horrible I have to do it again tomorrow.

    Oh and beleive me I know the feeling ; yet there should be people... I'll give a funny example here, people that can for example down almost half a bottle of rhum or tequila for a challenge... they should be put upfront and lead by example. So yes there should be people doing these challenges and getting into the forum and challenging *key word* peoples ideas with real information and yes you guessed it, challenging challenges.

    There is no excuse that you'd be raking a full salary and not arriving home and logging in unity to tweak scenes and do random deco that makes the world living and breathing... change the npc scripts for fun... leave your unique trace.

    To me its a question of ethics, it was raised so we must address it, if you asked me before I would have PREVENTED that question to be raised... but here it is.

    You can always try not listening to me again :( I've been informed of that quite often !
     
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  20. Zoucrew

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    This game is based on Ultima lore. This game can also be played online. Therefore, it is similar to Ultima Online.
     
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