Focus Tree still has problems for locked deck users

I thought this would be fixed during these combat-specific releases, but guess not.

Mental Reflex and Concentration -- both purely random deck skills -- are gating three general-use skills: Quick Swapping, Inner Calm, and Follow Through.

For pure locked deck users, this is an even bigger problem now. This is wasting points on random deck skills that they cannot use and at a dramatically higher cost now.

 

They are skills needed to be able to accomplish the higher skills, just like to cast a fire ball you need to know how to cast a fire arrow, or a flame fist. Sure it costa a few points and some gold but that is the point of Training.

I use Fire Arrow but don't even have Flame fist in my Deck so why should I have to train it? Same Principle

 

I think I'm gonna like this discussion... Making sense of top tier skills.... Love it.

 

I don't think you bothered to read the OP or even looked up what Mental Reflex or Concentration actually does. Those skills have no direct bearing or relation to the higher tier skills they're gating.

 

I think the best solution here, would be to add functions that locked-deckers can use to the Mental Reflex and Concentration skills.

If any skills require that you have a random deck, then there should be a random deck skill tree specific for those skills. Since i don't think they want to add new trees, I think it's reasonable to request that each skill has two functions, one that applies to each type of deck.

 

I understand what you're saying smack, but I'm pretty sure they dropped the "pre-requisites" from level 3, down to level 1 for Int, and the others to level 2 for each (that's actually a pretty good saving of points), I could be wrong, but I remember having to dump a lot of point into those before I could swap without focus lose... Besides your going to need those if you ever try the deck system...

Have you tried the new change they made to it? You can now stack each spot (key) with different glyths and they stay on the same spot and just rotate, I tried placing 3 of my favorite glyths across my deck and it was actually predictable as to what was coming up next, but since I have no points in Concentration and Mental Reflex the deck is still slow as all heck, but at least I can do simple combos (which you can't do with a locked deck), I still prefer a locked deck, but it's looking pretty limiting now... So more practice is needed for me to switch...

 

Not necessarily adding a whole new tree, but rather moving some branches or leaves around within the current Focus tree. But yeah, I can go with your idea too and have Mental Reflex and Concentration behave differently if you're locked vs. random.

Yeah, you're right. They did drop down the point requirements, but it's still wasted points nonetheless. I do play in both styles as I haven't yet determined which mode I like best. Random deck currently has way too many problems, which I know they're trying to solve. Which leads to your next point...

I think this was a great first step in fixing the UI focus problem with random deck. Many players have suggested this (or similar) over the past couple years. I like what they've done but they've still got a ways to go, especially with stacks and combos.

The suggestion I've made over the years to solve that was to alternately allow stacks/combos to be created as part of the deck build itself. In other words, you create those and put them in your deck and they are dealt already stacked or combo'd. The downside is that you face slugs due to deck minimums (a stack or combo counts as 1 glyph), you get less # of skills dealt since you've combined them into one glyph, and you don't get to re-stack or re-combine during combat. Whatever you created during the deck build is what you get during combat, just as it is now.

 

Locked deck balance is still to come, according to Chris. Including this, already debated, aspect.

Oh, and regarding the Flame Fist/Fireball requirement, it's true that I must train Flame Fist to reach Fireball, but it's also true I can use Flame Fist and Fireball, if I want to. With a locked deck, I cannot use Mental Reflex and Concentration, because they simply don't apply to me.

 

Just wandering, where was that stated?

 

https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/f...ease-19-instructions.32807/page-5#post-386125

 

The combat scrum is somewhat divided on the entire focus tree.

 

Focus tree is a problem by itself. Skill customization/management shouldn't be handled as skills, but as something else. Skills in skills tree are about customization, and skills in focus tree are somewhat mandatory. What's the point of draining a certain amount of points for everyone who wants to be competitive? I think it's best to put skill managament apart from the skill trees, and give them for free as part of the leveling process, improving both locked and random mode.

Regarding current implementation, i'm with Miracle Dragon here; skills available for everybody should be useful for everybody.

 

Just because you don't like what I said does not mean it was not relevant, I read and understood perfectly, you don't understand mine so .

Just because it doesn't relate the way YOU think it should does NOT mean the skill do NOT relate they are ways one learns how to use the focus tree, Just because you CHOSE not to use them does NOT mean you should not train them. I fighter HAS to train Dex and Strenght not just be Strong and hit hard.

 

However, if what you said is actually irrelevant - and you just proved it - then, well, it is irrelevant.

In your example, you can use Dexterity and Strength. You actually take advantage of those skills, even if you'd prefer not to take them.

A locked deck user CANNOT use Mental Reflexes and Concentration, for the very nature of a locked deck. Even if he/she wants, they cannot be used.

 

Their CHOICE, and they did use them to train a higher Tier skill.

 

Thick much, huh?

Ok, over for me.

Not understanding is one thing. Not wanting to understand is another.

Everyone else understood, that's enough for me.

 

You ARE missing the point, they have PURELY RANDOM DECK skills gating skills that could have nothing to do with random decks.

These are COMPLETELY CONTRADICTORY, not even a progression of the same theme, as fire fist / fire arrow.

It would be more akin to saying you need to learn ice fist first, before you can learn fire arrow.

 

They're not mandatory, though; I do fine without them. I pick them up only after I've picked up a lot of other skills I use. Of course, I'm only talking about my experience in PvE. Then the increase in Focus and Intelligence skills are somewhat analogous to skills in the Tactics tree that increase Health, Strength, Dex, etc.

Nah, I think weins is still correct in theory. There are many skills that you might have to invest in to get another skill, but which you don't want to actually use, and where the relation is only conceptual. For example, if I want Juxtapose, I have to get Confusion, whether I want it or not. The relation between Juxtapose and Confusion is there, but its only conceptual. Same with stuff on the Focus tree; the relationships between skills are conceptual.

Which isn't to say I don't think something could be done --- I agree with Miracle Dragon, actually. You could add some features to those skills that would be meaningful to locked deck users.

 

I'd have to disagree there. It would be like putting Open PvP skills into the crafting tree. There is no conceptual relationship here. It's simply an unnecessary penalty for Locked Deck users. In your example, you can still use Juxtapose or Confusion during combat. Locked deck users cannot technically use Mental Reflex or Concentration in any way whatsoever.

That, I can agree with. But I'd prefer a cleaner solution than having skills do double duty depending on combat style.

 

Its still just as much a choice to use a fully locked deck, that's all I'd say