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Food...

Discussion in 'Release 34 Feedback Forum' started by Mitara, Oct 2, 2016.

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  1. Mitara

    Mitara Avatar

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    So... are you using food yet? Do you think the need is high enough to warrant it? Or should food be even tougher and more in need than now?
     
  2. kaeshiva

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    To be honest, I don't like that regen rates were nerfed to make food have a purpose.

    The minimal buffs that food gives would have been just fine on top of the old regen rates, which were already questionable - I already had to use passive stance after every fight to regen and now I just have to do it 'longer'.

    I don't mind having to eat a piece of food that lasts an hour, even though it does add to my adventuring 'costs' on top of everything else I have to buy to function - when I'm grinding.
    However, it seems a waste to eat if I'm going to be mining or doing something that only involves combat periodically when stuff respawns - so this aspect has become a lot more tedious.
    Not to mention that food has 'weight' which is already a really big issue until you reach a high level and/or if you're already loaded down with 100 pounds of regs or 300 pounds of arrows before you even set off.

    Speaking truly from a realism point of view, if you eat a meal you aren't hungry again in an hour. If the food with the current, minimal effects lasted 8-9 hours, that'd be more 'realistic'. You should have a meal at a tavern and be good to go for the day. Also more reasonable, your character has to eat a couple of meals every day, not carry around a bottomless lunchbox. Anything less than the 1hr food I find to be completely pointless as you'll need to keep eating it and carry more of it.

    To be honest the whole system just added another layer of frustration for me.
     
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  3. majoria70

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    I love the food idea. I'm excited about it and the possibilities. Some people will want to be cooks. It will balance out, we just have to keep giving feedback, it is all in it's infancy at this time. So we've been hearing about food from Richard Garriot and it's implementation was coming for a couple of years at least, that it will matter, and it will have depth. It is not fully implemented at all. It so missing many things. There are going to be 5 tiers of food with different reactions that we get from them. There was a hangout specifically on food and Richards ideas. The higher tiers will be longer lasting of course. :)
     
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  4. WehTeheFf

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    I have some Bark Bread left over from R33 that I usually consume in harder areas. It reduces down times a bit, but it doesn't really add anything for me.
    Yes, food should be more important than in R33. But I don't like the "normal food only lasts 20min" part. The "harder" recipes require so many different ingredients that I haven't even tried them yet, because running around hunting for the right vendor isn't something I'm looking forward to :p

    All in all I like the idea of "buff food", but I don't like that it affects regen rates. I'd like it better if food gave some minor buffs to combat stats. Not on top of the regen rate. Only combat stats. But hey, not my decision to make so in the end I'll just eat what's on the table :p
     
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  5. Jefe

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    I personally like that there was an announcement that most players don't have enough cash to make ends meet. Then they make food (arguably the most expensive of the crafting types) required to reach pre-r34 combat effectiveness on recovery.

    Sometimes timing is everything...
     
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  6. WehTeheFf

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    Pretty much this, yes. But on the other hand we all know it's alpha/beta and we shouldn't expect perfect timing on all similar issues.
     
  7. Xandra7

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    I like that they have made food worth while, but could they please weight less.
     
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  8. Carlin the Druid Archer

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    Love the idea of food, but needs more incentive to use. Should be bigger penalties for not eating.

    BUT, give starting players a good stash of food to get them going so it's not too tough for them.

    AND perhaps a 'you are hungry' message comes up?
     
  9. kaeshiva

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    I don't have an issue with there being an incentive or even more incentive. I just hate tying it to regen.

    What if you didn't eat, and instead you got reduced xp from mobs?
    That'd make it just as necessary but wouldn't interfere with your combat capabilities.
    IE if you're hungry you can't focus/learn from what you're doing.
    Quadruple the cost, make it last how long a meal should last, 4-8 hours before you're 'hungry' again.

    Doesn't even have to be xp. Could be anything else. Move speed, carry capacity, etc.
     
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  10. Barugon

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    I think the way they have it now is just right. The way they first had it on QA (where you would only regenerate 2 points per second) was really bad. As it is, I usually mac on some duck stew before heading into an adventure zone.
     
  11. Barugon

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    One hour of real time is an entire day of game time.
     
  12. kaeshiva

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    One hour = 1 game 'day'
    By that logic, 2.5 focus per 'second' should be a whole lot faster ;)

    Some things clearly use real time and other things use 'game-time' - its not exactly consistent.
    IE - Its not realistic that I leave town and go spend 5 "days" in the bottom of a mine when I'm there for 5 "hours".

    Bottom line is, having to 'top up' every 30 mins or every hour (real-time) is a hassle, just to get back to what is still less than what was 'basic regen'.
    Having to carry all this extra stuff is a hassle and costs capacity.
    Having to craft and/or buy (and grind money to buy) food just to get back to what was 'basic regen' is a hassle.
    The food system should be interesting and fun, it should ADD something, not replace something intentionally taken away so they could present food as the 'solution'.
     
  13. redfish

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    Not really an issue. A single piece of food that may last an hour of gameplay weighs less than a pound. On average, you're not going to need more than a few pieces of food.

    If you're only doing combat rarely, you don't need to regen, so you don't need to eat food, so that doesn't sound like it effects your gameplay at all.

    A day in game is an hour. How many hours of gameplay do you play in a sitting anyway that you're worried about it? Do you play 8-9 hours in a day? 1 hour? 3 hours? Is it really too much to have three pieces of food in your inventory?

    At any rate, I never relied on auto-regen to begin with, since I have a Healing Touch spell in my deck. When I saw that they changed the mechanics for R34 I started playing by buying some food to try it out. Over time I stopped buying food because I decided it wasn't worth it. Especially since you lose your food buff when you die and you have no real meaningful reason to avoid dying. It just adds costs, when you can just use Healing Touch for free.

    So, I'll mostly keep on playing like I played before, using my Healing Touch and mostly ignoring food... If that isn't good enough for players, they can try buying Healing Potions... which will now have a use for them... though I got to admit, I'd still prefer using Healing Touch for free than using a potion.

    I'm betting, over time, a lot people will make the same decision, and not eat food...
     
  14. Satan Himself

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    If they make us eat, they should also make us poop. For realism/immersion.
     
  15. kaeshiva

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    Yes, its an issue - because it affects regen in combat. FOCUS regen, which is the kicker here. Health regen is a lot less relevant.
    For someone who is trying to mine? If the mobs were challenging before they are impossible now.
    If you're not fighting constantly, eating food is a waste but the encounters will be more difficult.

    This is another reason why I'm against nerfing the regen in the first place, creating a problem to put food as the solution, because in order to get back to that baseline you have to have that buff up at all times in all scenarios or you're operating at less efficiency than before.

    Carrying an extra few pounds of food isn't a *huge* deal, no. But it adds up with everything else you have to haul around, particularly at lower levels when your max capacity is pretty much taken up by having gear equipped, reagents/arrows/potions/any loot you pick up, items you harvest,etc.

    I think the issue for me is the principle -
    Instead of food being an optional item to enhance gameplay, it has instead become a mandatory item to bring you back up to the previous baseline at additional cost, when there are already far too many cash sinks to make normal adventuring profitable particularly for reagent users. It just wasn't necessary, desirable bonuses could have been added without messing with basic regen rates, and basic regen was barely adequate *before* - I already had to use passive stance after every fight before the latest nerf and that hasn't changed - even with food.
     
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  16. redfish

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    @kaeshiva,

    The few extra pounds aren't a big deal even with everything added up, because the effects from a few pounds of encumbrance don't add up to a hill of beans. So, what, you'll get -1% movement rate, or whatever it is, if you're already overencumbered because of all the other stuff you're carrying. Its seriously not important to even mention. I do mine a lot, btw. and I end up carrying hundreds of ores back before I even I had to worry about encumbrance. And that was true relatively early on in the game.

    And yea, I don't disagree.. I think Focus regen should be relatively fast... I'm not sure whether or not I'm currently satisfied with the focus regen rate... but you were talking about situations where you were mining and only occasionally fighting, which is why I said that it shouldn't matter, because your stats should regen in the mean time, between fights. Though this is also what Focus potions are for.

    As for the principle of the thing... it's not really a matter of nerfing... this was planned from earlier on in the game development. But its like many other areas of the game where the devs softened some of the penalties until they got all the mechanics in place. Right now, for instance, we have another thread on movement speed slowing off road. This was in the game in an earlier release, but the devs decided to take it out until they were ready to bring in roving encounters. Some people are wondering why the devs are nerfing travel speed; but it was just returned to what was planned.

    Its all a matter of how you expect from the game. There are games out there that do slow regen without food; for example, the Witcher games. The Ultimas didn't have auto-regen at all. You had to use spells, potions, or find a healer. Are these bad games? No, they're not. My experience with games is that games in which food is important tend to have a richer role-playing environment, while in games where its not are built around grinding repetitively, and food easily becomes a junk item people discard on NPCs. Because spells and potions are always better than food and food is just an extra cost.

    Anyway, I fundamentally disagree with the idea that it'll make food mandatory. I think a lot of people, people who are not min/maxing, will think its not worth eating. I've always thought there needed to be a hunger penalty.

    But yea its okay if we disagree. I just kind of get frustrated when I think problems are exaggerated, or when I think things that are non-issues (like weight) are brought up, or when I think the focus is on the wrong issues. I find the cost of food also relatively small with the cheapest food compared to other expenses. The worst thing in the game right now isn't even how much profit you can get from an outing... I've found that pretty good... fighting I can earn a couple of thousand of gold in an hour. Mining I can earn tens of thousands of gold if I resell to players, from hundreds of collected ore in my backpack. I carry back dozens of swords and shields and bows in my backpack from a hunt. Its ridiculous how much I can carry. What's not to like? Its pretty generous. That's not bad. The worst thing is how much the devs expect you to pay on taxes for housing. Making you grind to the bone to pay taxes if you own a decent sized lot. Its also bad how much resources it takes to craft a single item in some cases.

    Yea, so IMO its how much the devs expect you to grind that's a problem. Not the food, a relatively cheap expense that weighs really little. I want to fix the real problem.
     
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  17. Burzmali

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    Dozens of games have done food, it isn't hard. You give the player a food meter and when the meter drops below specific points you throw a debuff on them. Some food is more filling than others and some grant buff or debuffs. This isn't rocket science, these mechanics have worked well for dozens of years, why Port decided to reinvent the wheel is beyond me.
     
  18. Sixclicks

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    I bought some Ardoris Coleslaw off of someones vendor to use when I feel that I need it, but I haven't yet felt a need for it though. Even when we were killing dragons the other day, I just didn't really need it. I also haven't needed it when out farming enemy NPCs. Granted, I've got a focus pool of about 700 now, which only really runs out against huge groups of elves or when I'm soloing trolls and just trying to dump as much dps as possible. I think food can certainly be beneficial, but I just don't feel like it's required for anything yet. Maybe later on once they further reduce the passive regeneration rates it will be.

    Edit: I'd personally rather have food give buffs like +5 INT or other significant, but reasonable buffs to stats. There are so many different stats that food could buff. Just make it so that you can only have one food buff and one drink buff active at a time. Increase the duration of all of the food buffs as well since 1 hour just seems too short imo. If food gave me much more meaningful buffs like that, I'd run them all the time while pushing higher level content. As it is now, passive stance is free and regenerates more focus per second anyway. I don't really have an issue with food's weight as mentioned by a previous comment, but that may be because I've got 142 buffed strength now. I could see the weight being an issue if I was still an Air mage with only 300 lbs of carry capacity though. I think my empty inventory weight (when only carrying my gear sets, crafting fuels, and reagents) is about 120 lbs.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2016
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  19. Timmy Vortex

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    I think i missed the quest to learn that :p
     
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  20. Zader

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    And agricultural fertilizer is born!
     
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