Full loot PVP and stuff

That is a problem between PVP players then. How about you suggest ways to encourage PVP players to wear better gear in a PVP zone. For example maybe the air in a PVP zone needs to be so toxic that without good gear a player will die too quickly to be a contender.

If the mobs dropped 100x the gold and 100x the xp in the same way resources are said to be multiplied in a PVP zone, then maybe it would be a PVE lure, but as they don't then it's no lure, as people can find their own equivalent mobs to kill in their own PVE zones.

Then remove the *extra* resources from the PVP zones and bring them back to the same quantities as are found in PVE zones, then as a PVPer you can PVP while collecting resources, and the PVE players won't be lured into a PVP zone when all they want to do is collect resources (when they want to PVE) - because the PVE zone has what they want in no less quantities than the PVP zone.

That way people who actually want to PVP will be found in the PVP zone, and not people who are actually hoping to do no PVP at all ie those who feel they are being siren-called into the PVP zone with the promise of PVE lures in quantities that are not found in their own PVE zones.

 

Actually, those Flash Flyers from Shardfalls are excelent NPCs. I want to show them in my PvE combat class, because they have long range attacks, short range attacks, yet they are immobile. They cannot kill you unless you let them, but it is not so easy to kill them. I wish we had them in non PvP zone.

 

Will we be able to access the PVP areas in single player mode (and gather said resources/widgets)?

Cause I'm ALL about single player PVP mode!!

 

The discussion among devs in the hangouts etc seem to be ongoing.
But if the shardfalls etc would be available in single player online then they would nerf the available resources as to not give an exploit.
However in R15 (and I think still true for R16) you can go into shardfalls in single player.

 

I may be a bit of an odd duck but I am a non pvp player that has played full loot open pvp games for years and years. I dont play to pvp. In fact it is usually my death if I am found and attacked. I just try to exist and survive as a helpless plebeian in a hostile world.

People dont usually understand it but that is how I like to play.

Now here we dont have a complete world of full loot pvp. But I hope I will at least be able to enjoy my playstyle in these areas. This will require the full loot area to have things I would want/need and be worth the extra risk of getting.

What bothers me the most is if this turns out to be mostly a pvp areana with everyone waiting at a bottlekneck entrance/exit. If I can have a chance to get in and out and the rewards are good enough then I will gladly try and take the bait.

Not sure if you are just exaggerating here but I would have to agree that 100x would be way to much. But that is not to say there should not be some increase.

 

The rare resources do not give more resources. There are more spawns. Your analogy is off. PvE that does not wish to PvP can go find those rare resources without going into the Shardfalls. The ratio of spawn rates in the 95% vs 5% is unknown.

More abundant spawns does not imply more access. They will still have to fight for access. (The fight for access is my area of concern. If PvP is the fight then PvP needs to be happening)

PvE will still have zones to gather these rare resources.

And I already said that full loot does not generate profit. It only changes hands. The cost of PvP removes gold from the game. Something must be done to create that gold. - See Chris' Economy thread, maybe his wording explains it better.

Put a hard line like servers that segregate is not what I am talking about. Out of sight out of mind, behind a curtain, PvP might as well not exist.

So PvP will be forced to stop PvP and go PvE to recover costs. With what they have now, a PvPer that hates PvE could kill other PvPers and take their gathered resources.

The 5% zones are the places PvP can go to not PvE. Calling an increase in abundance of rares in a zone a lure is not right. Not when there are many options to get those rares without ever stepping into those zones.

 

umm i have a great analagy for this. it's two parts

1) pve/pvm is 95 percent of the game. so its resources are spread out across 95 percent of the game. pvp is 5 percent of the game so its resources are clustered closer together and more abundant.
2) resources fall under CRAFTING NOT PVE/PVM WHICH CLEARLY STATES PLAYER VERSUS ENVIRONMENT OR PLAYER VS MONSTER

i so agree with this. so again we go back to the whole i don't play that way so you shouldn't be able to play that way as well. u take things like this away from the game then we will be limiting the amount of players that will not only play this game but stay with this game.

 

Oh yay! We will not be 100% cut off from resources. Forgive me if I don't jump up and down. There is much more in PVP zones vs very little in PVE zones. This makes no sense at all, there should be far more resources in PVE zones, where people do PVE things, and in PVP zones, where people want to do PVP things, there should be an abundances of PVP content. Resource gathering is simply not PVP, it is PVE.

It generates 100% profit for the person who loots it off the other's dead body. When it changes hands - BAM! Profit. At no time does a PVP player have to buy or make or even repair any gear at all, he can just loot it from other players.

The people who want to PVP know where it exists, that's all that matters. How does not having "abundant" resources vs the same quantities of resources generate any kind of line, even fabric ones? Let me answer that one for you - it doesn't. If a person wants to PVP, everything on the map tells them where the PVP zone is.

If you stop to pick up resources then you are stopping to PVE to recover costs. Therefore removing the "abundant" resources from the PVP zone will in fact save you from ever feeling the need to stop and PVE to recover costs - you will just PVP to recover costs, as you clearly want to do according to this sentence of yours I just quoted. So, to recover costs, just loot the bags of those who have fallen, and PVP away all day long.

 

Is there any chance we could get that 5 or 6 page dump Chris?

 

This sounds like a fine argument for somebody who never PvPed before. More likely, the majority of PvPers will gain wealth like other PvE players to sustain their PvP addiction. Nobody really gets rich PvPing either. A good player basically sustains his career as a PvP player, but they don't ever get rich unless that PvPer is actively killing Litch Lords and Balrons or something (just an example). Maybe this game will be different because they might be a better resell value to the stuff they loot, but I am guessing that most will just reduce most of the items they gain into materials for crafting because there won't be much of a demand for items that have been worn out. Players will likely pay money for new items. Also not all items looted are valuable. So ingots might be the best bet to help the PvPer.

If there is nothing to draw people there then why will PvPers go there? My point is the draw is for all players not just PvE. If there is nothing to lure us there then I seriously doubt these zones will be visited much because the plants alone make it not worth our time unless there is something worth gathering. Notice the plants do not give much XP based on how dangerous they are. So there would be no reason to visit one of these zones if there is no lure.

This was answered by my previous statement. The lure is for everyone. PvP and PvE don't define people. Even if only players interested in PvP want items crafted with special materials, it is quite likely that every crafter might have the desire to sell items like that because PvPers are good for the crafting economy.

Why are PvPers so good for crafters? Because they hoard or reduce loot into ingots. PvPers that loot items generally don't put them back into the economy. That is usually the last people see of that item unless it is useful for the player who looted it.

Crafters want PvPers as clients because they burn through items the fastest. (which is another reason why PvPers do not get as rich fighting other players, than they do if they dungeon crawl or craft on the side).

 

Should we go into the topic of how many types of PvPers there are? Why can't PvPers has PvE? As far as being cut off from resources. No one is guaranteed resources. If rare resources are being some nasty dragon. How many PvE will be cut off from those resources. How difficult the dragon is sets the access level. How much success in PvP is required to gather resources is still unknown.

OK, so you and I PvP. You kill me. You loot me. Now I am naked. Do I go in and PvP? No, I can't, I must recover my losses.

It's not a hard line, as I said before. If you tuck PvP away in some corner of an instance. People will tune it out. Obviously anyone wanting to PvP will go seek it out. The more tucked away PvP the less likely people that are slightly interested in PvP will be to try it. The 5% zones are not for those people anyway.

The 5% zones are for creating content that gives people that want more of a PvP game. PvP is consensual. This cuts out a lot for some PvPers. Should those PvPers leave and not play SotA. The devs are going with 5%, a small area that people can avoid if they don't want anything to do with PvP.

1st, don't run down the road of thinking this is about what I want. It's about discussing mechanics and human reaction to mechanics.

What is not happening is profit for PvP to offset the cost of PvP. Gathering or taking resources from someone that already gathered is quick. Leaving the zone to go PvE is not.

The Shardfall isn't an arena. It's not capture the flag or control points. There is no method of awarding gold for winning at PvP.

Looting is not PvP, gathering is not PvP, questing is not PvP. Attacking or defending from attacks is PvP. Shardfalls are not just about PvP. If someone doesn't want to PvP but wants to have access to the PvE in that zone they have options. They can go and find the content they prefer and get their PvE from there. Or they can go to the jobs board and auction house to get it from those that wish to sell their resources.

It's like a swimmer complaining they don't want to climb a mountain for a work out. No need, there are places to swim too.

 

umm you will have more resources than what will be in pvp. it will just be scattered around a larger area. wow a slight increase in rares and nodes is all pvp is getting in a condensed space. Lollie this isnt uo.

wow two things here why does it really matter and the term of abundant resources is a perspective thing that one will never agree. we get you dont like pvp and you have stated time and time again you will never go their. I will I am not a hard corp pvper. I enjoy the challange of creeping in and stealing/harvesting stuff from those areas. take that away and what do i have to do for fun.
ADD currently i can harvest every resource in the game faster and get more of it in non pvp area's i gathered over a 1000 wood in under 8 hours guess what it was not in the pvp area. so you estimation that the pvp drop's is that much better again is false. but how would u know that. you wont take our word for it and you will never go their so how can we prove to you that its not excessive.

Again it's clearly obvious you don't know the looting rule's ill restate them.
1) anything u take into a pvp scene is unlootable.
2)anything u gather/harvest/ must clear the scene through normal routes to become yours. if you die u will have to recover your body to retain anything you acquired since entering the scene (so regardless of dying to mob or pvper anyone can loot the body of gathered items)

Full loot area's
anything is lootable. however less is known about the extent compared to the upper set rules
(not starting a new war but tools of prosperity etc gathering tools will they be lootable as well however different topic different thread just pointing out there's a lot we don't know about the full loot areas yet)


so by removing resources what is their for pvp to recover costs other than having to play the game the you want to play the game. you are forcing players to play the game in a way that is not fun. where if you leave it alone players like me and other players that do have fun trying to out wit pvp and will go after those resources and do have fun getting them will no longer be able to have fun. so you are effectively killing the fun of 2 different type of players in the game to play the game you want every one to play.

 

I've said everything I need to say, no point going round and round repeating myself just to make equal noise because the other person keeps repeating themselves...just no point when it's not getting through.

 

It's all about the balance. Too much access in one area and not enough in the others and things fall apart. That goes for both PvE and PvP and anyone that wishes some of both.

 

Lollie just remember Ristra is not attacking you personally when he disagrees with your opinions. We are not your enemies. I like your road thing and your decoration contests. Try to retrain your mind to try to remember those who disagree are not making fun of you personally.

To be honest lollie if you cannot compromise or even try to see anybody else's point of view ... I don't think you truly represent the majority of PvEers.

I believe most people are ok with compromise to some extent.

EDIT: People who cannot compromise fall into the category of those who can never be pleased. Why should anybody try to please the unpleasable. It is only logical to please those who are willing to compromise, because they are actually able to be pleased.

 

So we are still spinning it like there is only 5% of the game available to PVP? Reality there is 100%, of the world and 95% for PVE....you can pvp anywhere if you flag....

It seems like a false argument to say otherwise wouldn't you say?

 

Not at all... the comment was based on land mass not where one can for lack of better terminology duel openly without warning. and regardless how you try to spin it backwards 100 percent of the world is open to 100 percent of the players. again its choice and play style. you chose when and where u want to play.

what people have problems with is people trying to limit what other people find fun because that person doesn't like it or doesn't want to do himself. Its why i play on both sides of the argument.

why do so many people not want pvp people to have any fun
why do so many people want to take what some people find fun away. if you don't like it don't do it why take my fun of risking and out thinking a pvper away from me.

 

Oh come now, those last two sentences are fear mongering, or propaganda, no one is even saying that.

It's not duel openly, you can literally attack anyone you want if you are flagged.

It isn't open to those who do not want to pvp, or a playstyle, which I thought we are talking about? Or is that no longer the current argument? Your last two sentences sure make it sound like we are talking about play styles?

No one is trying to limit anything, we are trying to make it fair. It makes sense to think it sounds great that someone can get extra resources and loot in those areas, but it doesn't sound balanced at all.

I find that a lot of these arguments come down to trying to get things in place that unbalance things for a leg up that hopefully will get through instead of what is good for the game.

 

This would imply all PvP is the same. Open PvP is not the same as what these 5% zones can offer. It's impossible to offer what these zones can offer when someone can opt out of PvP and still have access. PvP is the control, PvP is removed as a control in the 95% zones.

Very much so. This is about the mechanics. How people react to each individual mechanic and several mechanics combined. It's also about how many dials and knobs the devs have in place to adjust things when they are not going as intended.

Figuring out the intent of the devs and then looking at things from all different perspectives. Just as the non consensual PvP crowd must accept consensual PvP. Zero PvP crowd must accept 5% of the map is going to have content that is designed for the more PvP interested crowd.

The in between crowd would be more the area of concern. Will they PvP, will they accept a more hardcore PvP, will they have a steep learning curve or cost prohibitive wall.

 

That wasn't my point....it was a counter to the thought that the world is heavily in favor of one side. I'm aware what the zones will offer but they clearly and obviously benefit that playstyle...and add more to that playstyles game. It makes sense, but it doesn't mean there is only 5% of the game available to them.