Full loot PVP and stuff

Full loot does not generate gold. It only trades hands. Someone will still need to go PvE to make profit with full loot.

 

I will pass, but good luck.

 

Not neccisarily. With multiple characters per account this can be bypassed. Also if you are controlling this scene with a guild then you will have your guild crafters. 5% of the population will have 95% of the valuable resources. I guess that sounds fair?

 

Someone that is not interested in PvE is not going to go in there. Not if they have alternatives, which they do.

The PvPer that is interested in profit is going to gather in that zone. The PvPer that is interested in stopping the PvPer there to gather will also be there for profit.

 

Then it's free loot entirely for the person who did not PVE to create the item, so this is 100% profit for the PVPer.

At no point will a PVPer have to go PVE to make his gear - he can just take it off another player in PVP.

Pure. Profit.

 

rinse repeat. rinse repeat. rinse repeat. I see your point. I do not think you see mine. I will keep replying to your statements though. Eventually maybe you will try to see my side of the view. You may not agree with it but you should consider it.

 

Care to elaborate, not sure where you are going with this. Logging into an alt to PvE is still stopping PvP and PvEing to cover costs.

This topic is a black hole. A lot of unknowns to go into it too far. But, controlling a scene doesn't control the instance. Resources are cross instance. Is some other guild controls another instance of that scene it becomes a gathering race without PvP at all. The devs will need something to prevent this mess.

Where are these numbers coming from? Who is 5% of the population. What is 95% of the valuable resources.

5% and 95% is only land mass ratio. Not player base or economic value.

 

You are saying PvE will be baited, I get that. Some will try everything. Those that detest PvP will never get baited.

What I am saying is they have stated they do not wish to make a PvP server, no segregation. How else would they make PvP content that does not exclude or segregate. Options. The bait is no bait at all when there are ample alternatives.

 

Using an alt to craft and trade is a means for pvp to sustain themselves with the resources they have acquired. In addition it adds to the argument that pvp should not have additional resources because they can make a living doing pve crafting in addition to the pvp.

Your right it is a black hole, and we dont have the answers for guild camping shardfalls. I do see a problem if it can happen though.

I admit the numbers that I used are generic in nature and I should have specified. One thing I can be almost certain about is that we have a greater number of pve people than pvp people. So I suspect that a significantly lesser number of people will control the greater amount of rare resources.

Again I will restate what I have said earlier to tie in with this. This game in its original format of one character per account might have lessened this scenario. Also in UO they had a skillset that was limited so that pvp would have to make a choice to spend skill points to balance out the priorities that they wanted. You would not be able to be a crafter and a pvp at the same time. Here, it is all inclusive and one account can do almost everything.

 

by making pvp enjoyable for the largest possible playerbase. That is how. Not doing the tram/fel experiment once again. We know how that worked out. We also know seperate shards do not work. Listen, in the end we all want the best game possible. We want players to have fun and enjoy themselves. How does this situation present itself as fun to the majority of the playerbase? I am talking about all inclusive pvp/pve combined.

 

They make the PVP area pure PVP, with no PVE lures.

 

In addition, how is this ample compensation.
Many of the rarest widgets only exist in significant quantities inside PVP areas.

only significant quantities inside pvp areas. That means the rest is Insignificant.

 

Alts do not change things though. There is still PvP down time. Someone that wants to PvP all the time will need to stop PvP and go make profit to cover costs of PvP. Might as well go Open PvP and turn off open PvP when you need to cover costs. Then you run into "why do we open PvP" issues. 5% zones are more for the PvP purist that doesn't see the value in Open PvP.

The key here is to balance this abundance. PvP should not have additional resources because they are PvP. No, they are getting more abundance in spawns. It's very different. Dense spawns does not mean they will walk out of the zone with all the resources. They will still need to be successful at PvP (this is heading into that black hole area again, it's assuming they balance the rate of gathering vs rate of PvP stopping gathering)

I agree, UO's model forced a choice. Combat and crafting/gathering skills shared the skill cap. This forced sheep vs wolves. That kind of sheep does not exist in SotA. All sheep can have teeth.

 

That would be segregation. Put PvP behind the iron curtain. But, again, is it a lure when there are many other options? It simply becomes one more option.

There must be a balance there. Because if the Shardfall is the only realistic source of these rare resources then I am right there with you. It's no longer an option, it's forced PvP.

 

No it wouldn't be segregation, as anyone could then go in the PVP zone to enjoy PVP (as opposed to luring PVE players into the PVP zone with PVE objectives to totally not enjoy PVP while they are trying to get a PVE objective done).

Segregation would be making it so the PVE player couldn't get into the PVP zone at all, if they actually ever wanted to.

...*want* being the operative, as opposed to *lure*.

Making the PVP zone full of PVP objectives is in no way segregation - it is simply making a PVP area a PVP area, where PVP happens.

 

Yeah, and this is where I end up on the other side of the fence. If the balance is off then all this turns into forced PvP. It's not that I don't see the point. I have made this exact same case many times over the last 2 years.

It all lands on the macro economics. Resources fabricated by the server. If the all of the playerbase, not just the majority, are all in their preferred play style and the server is producing resources at a desired rate. Things will work. If the majority of the playerbase is not playing their preferred play style to get those resources then things are broken.

 

Ok, lets back up. There is a cost to PvP. There must be profit. Some will gladly PvE to get this profit. The Open PvPer would do this.
Some will not want to stop PvP and want some method of making profit in PvP.

So how do you add profit? Can't remove the cost or it removes many other elements of the game.

Can't give gold per kill. Way too exploitable. This method of abundant resources is not exploitable, not that I have seen. The exploit issues is due to instance caps. The devs are going to need some solution for this.

This would be forced segregation. Not what I am talking about. I mean more along the lines of easily tuned out. WoW for example. PvP doesn't exist to many players. No reason to cross over and it's actually painful to do so. Due to the gear grind, anyone that tries PvP is way behind.

The 5% isn't for the people wishing to try out PvP. Those players are not being lured there. They could, but they will see pretty quickly that it's for people that live for PvP.

 

Let me put it this way. If they are designing these 5% zones around getting people that are not interested in PvP to go there, they will fail.

I have been a loud voice on the forums about not designing PvP around making profit off those not interested in PvP. This will never work. It turns PvP into a cannibalistic cycle of new player retention issues.

 

Profit for a PVPer is found in the full loot system in PVP, which is already being added to the game. That is profit gained from PVPing by PVPing. No need for a PVPer to ever PVE to get gear, as he can take it from another PVPer if he is good enough. We have already discussed this.

Making a PVP zone full of PVP objectives is not segregation in any sense - the zone still exists should any player choose to go in and do actual PVP. What I am talking about is simply giving PVE players the real choice to not go in if they don't want to. PVE players deserve to have a real choice, without lures.

The thing is, these people are not "wishing to try out PVP" - they are "wishing to get some PVE objectives completed, with no PVP at all if possible, problem being here that someone just stuck a huge bunch of their PVE objectives (tons of resource nodes) in a PVP zone. These players are indeed being lured there.

What needs to happen (once again) is for a PVP zone to only have PVP objectives, and no PVE lures.

 

Again i dont understand the argument of why we should remove resources all together... why cant i pvp and gather resources.
kill take gear is only in the full loot area and the area of pvp is just what the person has acquired in scene so if there was nothing in scene to acquire then what money would they make?

resources and rate drop will never be removed from pvp area's. i don't even see why it should to be honest... i don't even see why this is a discussion point. That is one topic just like no non consensual pvp will be in the game. bottom line if we are all truly honest. when the first shardfall opened up we played in it for what 20 mins and went screw this why? Cause their was nothing to occupy us. no one went their. not enough resources the plants were um redicolous.

brings us back to the full loot area... no one will bring in top gear suits. more than likly it will be the cheap garbage that u buy in owls head or where ever. not much gold in selling that. if you take away any resource nodes in there whats left. a map, and some mobs. wait according to you pvp area should just pvp so lets take the mobs out as well cause that could be considered a lure right its not true pvp. Pvp dosnt like pvm at all so lets remove it... all you will have is a pretty wasteland where no one goes and even by chance a few people do go to it guess what its all negitive production. thus by forcing pvp players to pvm in the pvm world. in pvm owns words WHY SHOULD I BE FORCED TO DO SOMETHING I DON'T WANT TO DO.

Wait im sorry it's a choice to pvp right therefore it is a choice to need to find ways to repair gear that gets damaged faster than pvm. so its all good that you are trying to force pvp players to play the game the way you want to. so by those rules it would be choice to go to the pvp areas to hunt resources not bribery.