Game is missing major features - working on add ons instead? What is going on?

Keep in mind the differentiation between delaying the game and delaying features. Darkstarr was obviously correct when he asserted that an artist building a house does not interfere with a programmer creating a separate feature.

HOWEVER

Artists creating extra assets WILL delay the game, directly proportional to the amount of time spent creating said assets as well as implementation. Assets are content, after all, just like DS said. And if extra content is being created for the addon store before game-required content is complete (which obviously seems to be the case, because the game required content is not complete), then that means the game required content has been delayed. Unless, of course, Portalarium has hired artists to work ONLY on extra, non-required content. And I think we all know that this is not the case, especially with a "small team of around 25".

EDIT: I actually typed the word "content" six times in that single paragraph. A record?

 

I understand your view on this, and can even see how what you're saying could be reality... Just not with you entirely. I've been on projects where when the team grew beyond critical mass, progress slows. I don't want to say that is the case here, because how would I know? But, in my experience as project continue, and the larger it grows, the more complex the system becomes, and the harder it is to keep momentum. Team of 25 seems pretty lean, so I could be wrong.

 

I do not want another UO though some 'features' that other games have, had or will have do sound nice. I do not want a clone...that is why I've backed this project. Most all people who enjoy MMORPGs want immersion. A good game takes time and for the last 2 years, stuff has come up. New things and ideas that could make what was started even better. To 'focus' on only what some have as their hit points and exclude new, better and the like is far more of a crime and has potential to touch alot more people than those not getting what they want, right now. A statement with "we will have" is alot different than "we promise that we will have". Holding an entire operation to a statement isn't even really reasonable IMHO. The landscape changes so fast. 2 years is nearly a galaxy away in terms of 2010s technology and MMO ideas. I'm concerned my existing rig won't even be able to push this game when it's complete.

Elite: Dangerous had their Kickstarter campaign in November of 2012 and Release in December of 2014. Purportedly the $2.6mils gained through the kickstarter was a bit less than 1/4 of what was actually spent on the games development. For SotA, it was March of 2013 and now its been just over two years. SotA's kickstarter granted the game nearly $2 mils and now we are at nearly $7 mils. I'm not one to really concern myself with comparisons but have you 'played' Elite: Dangerous? A game where many missions are procedurally generated and well...boring, repetitious and forgettable?

I can understand that picking stuff up off the ground and setting it back down is important to you and I'm sure the devs know as well...now. However, there is a big picture here and I am much more concerned about that to be honest. Performance and content as a whole are major ones. PVP and littering? Not so much...

 

I wouldn't mind item placement for particular things. When I first started playing shroud I was confused by the fact that when I picked up a sword from a table I couldn't put it back into the world. I guess I just expected that feature from a sandbox game that is the spiritual successor of Ultima. But...I wasn't stricken with grief over it because I realize how awful it would be for performance. If they do decide to play around with it in the future, a decay on how long the items stay in the world might be logical... as well was a restriction on what items you can dump. You shouldn't be able to just dump a wardrobe in the middle of the street. And as to whatever was mentioned about blocking NPCs with junk--move the junk. Multiple items of the same type could show up as a bag, maybe a few different sizes based on the amount of crap dropped. Honestly though, it just seems really complicated at this point and some of the scenarios people are describing they miss about item dropping from UO seems immersion-breaking, obnoxious and fairly pointless. It could be incredibly abused.

 

For me the question is: What is better? A static world in which everything is glued into place or an immersive, interactive world, in which items can be moved, taked and dropped depending on their weight?

Sure there need to be some adjustments, for example some kind of decay over time for the online mode but I cannot see that such restrictions would be neccessary for the offline mode.

 

The Airship was created as Darkstarrs home as long we don't get the episode where we find his home. So how is this an extra asset for the store? This goes for 90% of the items.

 

Hee hee, my first trolling accusation.

No I am not trolling. The game I am looking for is the game I contributed several hundred dollars for on Kickstarter. That in no way included dropping items on the floor. In fact many reasons were given for not doing so. Personally I can take it or leave it. I think some people need more help being immersed in a game than I do. I don't need a real world simulator; I just need a good game.

 

For offline mode, sure. If it can be worked in, then it should. I agree completely, but for online mode...the question you gotta ask yourself should be: Do I want to sacrifice performance for this feature? Because even with a decay on litter, it's going to affect performance severely. And if the decay timer is >1 min, then what is even the point of having the feature at all?

 

But on a serious note, I wish they would not call this game the "spiritual successor" to Ultima Online, which included more immersion in 1997 than almost any MMORPG since (which consisted of, among other things, item drop (ability to manipulate items and environment), death penalties(losing all items), etc) if they don't intend to put those game mechanics on the forefront to be worked on(as Smitty is trying to point out). Just call it a " good game" then.


Just poking fun Umbrae, obviously you aren't trolling!

 

For myself, this isn't just a 'feature' or 'addition' but an integral part of the game's core that needs to be in. I hope the dev team sees it that way also. We all know we've played some incredible games, but the ones we love sometimes have the worst graphics - gameplay is everything.

 

Also unless Portalarium has been able to hire MORE artists because part of that cost is covered by add-on creations. The money goes somewhere that is raised, some of that money of course had to pay for the time that the artist spent on it, but the rest goes to hiring more.

Now if there is something that ONLY Richard Garriott could do, and he is diverted from that to work on the add-on store, then yes, that could push back the game. I doubt they hired artists to work ONLY on extra, non-required content (whatever that means, because all art is probably unrequired by itself) but perhaps they have more artists than they would have had - had they not created content that ends up in the store instead of at the in-game shopkeeper or crafting table.

 

The problem with your wish is that it was a common mechanic to grief players in UO.

 

I'm not saying I'm right, I'm just saying that people have no factual evidence to say that add-ons (which is really just asset diversity) is delaying the game. If they raise more money than the time put in, then that money can be used to hire more people who create more game content and scenes etc. Maybe they needed more core systems in and assets etc. etc. to make the scenes and can now hire multiple people to work on scenes because they have the budget to do so due to previously raised asset funds.

We don't know, so crying out that we don't need no outhouse (this isn't directed at you Tarsin, just a general statement) because that outhouse wasn't promised in kickstarter and has delayed "getting in core systems" doesn't make sense to me.

There is game left to build and populate, but anything that gets more money than money put in means they CAN hire more people. I agree with you on project size, you hire more people and you have to manage them and things are less efficient.

Again, I'm not saying the add-on store has had no effect on development time, I'm saying there is no way to prove it has (and it is my belief that the funds raised from add-ons has allowed the hiring of more staff to further populate the world, or at least continue to fund the project if they underbudgeted on time needed for core features), so everytime someone says "Stop making airships and make the game already" makes me cringe. Because they ARE making the game, and the airship is (in my opinion, and unproven) going to be revenue positive which allows the hiring of more staff.

 

Yes it is however, this system is GFX intensive and alot has to be managed in the background to make it all work. Sure UO had alot of immersive features but it was 2D. You could throw stuff in a pile and its just more 2D stuff. In this game, a pile that you can pick through requires a hell of a lot more work. For me UO is gone. It doesn't exist, on my PC anyway. Just like EQ it's history and whats new takes alot more time to get right than what some people consider reasonable. Better = Time + $, period. Consider this like a risky stock. You invest in it but it's likely to have a great return in the long haul. If you pull out to soon, in most cases you miss out on the chance for a great return.

 

Because they aren't calling it the spiritual successor to Ultima Online. It's the spiritual successor to the Ultima SERIES.

 

Not sure why you quoted me on this one. I did not explicitly reference the airship or any other asset. In fact, I specifically said "extra" assets. If an asset is being created for the game, as part of required content, and then being added to the add-on store after the fact, then that obviously would not be covered by my statement.

But, since you brought up the Airship... is Darkstarr's home going to be a place that we can visit in-game in episode one?

This statement gets a big from me. Perhaps you would rather play a game where every thing you see is downloaded from the unity asset store?

To address the rest of your post, if they are making enough money from the add-on store to hire extra artists, then yes, that would be a positive thing that helps out the game. That being said, an average artist salary in Austin appears to range around $50k-$60k a year, or $4000-$5000 a month. Do add-on store items really bring in that kind of money?

I guess its possible.

 

Not to nit-pick too much here, since your point is well taken, but if Ultima Online is an Ultima, then it's also true that SotA is a spiritual successor to Ultima Online; it's just not exclusively a successor to Ultima Online.

 

Or, we could be playing a MUD. LORD anyone? Even there, there was ANSI art.

 

Of course. The point is that most of the items in the add-on store were assets they already had in the game (tents, banners, etc), already owned but didn't make available to players (hedges, for instance, which they mentioned as such, and likely they purchased the animal art), or would have used other places in the game other than the store, because they needed art to decorate the world anyway.

Which is what I was talking about in the other thread.

I get that some people really hate the concept of the add-on store, and I don't like microtransactions either -- I wish these things were available to all players through the crafting system myself -- but I honestly don't see the concern here.

 

Yes, but it is being treated in this instance as though it was meant to be solely a successor to UO. Raxxus seemed unaware that SoTA could INCLUDE but is not LIMITED to inspirations from UO AS WELL as the original 1-9 series. And I was simply pointing out that his statement was plain wrong, by definition, of what Shroud is. And his wishing the devs would not call it something that--they aren't even calling it-- is just exasperating further all the false claims flying around this thread.