Gold Crowns of the Obsidians

I'm saying time shouldn't be bypassed by money. Would be like WoW selling lockout timer/loot resets on weekly raids so people with money could instantly run the raid again and again to get the best loot. Those coins being tied to the repair system are the best loot in game so they are selling time bypasses. Difference being your bypassing the rare drop status of the crown by selling them.

 

Thanks for the post @WrathPhoenix.

If this is correct, it puts me at ease. However, the confusion over "buying" 1250 gold for $.85 could have been avoided had this been run through Dev+ or even through a few high-level community members first so that way the points that you listed below could have been included in the announcement and this misunderstanding of "buy gold with cash!" could have been mitigated.

If people are buying the Crowns for small bonuses or for repairing, I'm fine with it as not everyone has time... to sell to an NPC for gold I am not. I don't want people to pay cash for anything they want in game; I want them to mine their ore and pick their cotton, not purchase it in the Add-on store.

 

Communication fail.
Why do they have to happen with such difficult topics?
But every topic seems to be difficult lately.

Giving the coins 0 value might not be the solution you want.
I still can put it up in my vendor and sell it for 5k the pice.
But this gives other people wo don't want to spend hard cash on the coins the Chance to buy them ingame.

 

I'm torn on this issue. On the one hand I want Shroud to be a successful game that will still be here in 5+ years. On the other hand this implementation is absolutely pay to win. I know some people are saying it is not, but when a person can obtain the best weapons & armor, for example a full obsidian set which is powerful but fragile, and then just maintain that armor and go farm more mobs, or higher level mobs, and gain levels faster than the person that can't afford the coins and must revert to using cheap replacement armor, then this is pay to win. Even if that person with the full set of obsidian armor needs 9 gold crowns a day to maintain, there will be people out there that will pay that, as shown by how many people have put $10k+ into the game. You can't use the argument "oh - but you can get them free in game" because there is no way you can farm the coins to constantly maintain that obsidian armor for constant use. They are "rare" after all.

 

^^^ Nailed it

 

Why do people keep saying this is pay to win?

Somebody please tell me the difference in buying a crap load of cheap items off the store and selling for ingame gold and buying some crowns and selling for ingame gold? As soon as you have a multiplayer game with a store where people can trade people will buy things for the conversion......or indeed if there is no Store they will buy from a gold farmer.

On top of that what exactly are people winning?

Either by definition the game has always been P2W or it isn't and nothing has really changed.

I don't believe this game is really P2W and never have done..........Clash of Clans - thats P2W

 

The whole crowns thing finally got me to get this off my chest: https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/f...e-game-i-hoped-it-would-be.51919/#post-566902

 

Thank you.

 

Because it is true

You can't just indefinately buy cheap items off the store and sell it as the market wouldn't be there eventually? While with the crowns you can just buy them indefinately in a failsafe game sponsored mechanic?

People will set themselves various goals. Some might want to be the best in pvp, some people will just want to have a build with the biggest hp pool. People set themselves various goals. It's like playing a game of monopoly with your family and then questioning "what are you winning?"

While I admit there are certain perks for higher pledges, none are as much to the core of the game and character advancement as these crowns are though.

never played clash of clans, so can't comment

 

As @WrathPhoenix has previously mentioned, a lot of good discussion was had on this subject in IRC/Discord with @Chris yesterday.

I'm going to repeat my main talking points here as a matter of record:

• Crowns should have no pre-determined gold value (0g).
  • Allows players to assign value to the item if they sell them in the public/private vendor network
  • Maintains regional economy
  • Prevents gold farmers and players intent on trying to make a buck from the game from artificially devaluing the market
• Crowns should be taken out of the crafting repair mechanic altogether.
  • The durability changes that were meant to stimulate the crafting economy are reversed with crown repair
  • High level crafters are now devalued since anyone can throw money at the game to keep their gear pristine
  • A compromise was presented by Chris*
• I agree with WrathPhoenix that crowns should be able to be usable in the Add-On Store, or either create an in-game version of the Add-On Store. (Special vendor/building in Brittany(?))
  • Gives players who might not have extra money a way to obtain Add-On Store items
  • Increases in-game intrinsic value of crowns, without assigning a gold value
  • Turns "Pay to Win" into "Play to Win", like winning tickets for prizes at an arcade (and on that note, opens the door for in-game gambling houses using crowns as the currency)

* Chris's compromise was that as you repaired max durability using crowns, the number needed to maintain max durability would continually increase, until the crown cost was too exorbitant. My rebuttal on that concept is that it still puts a damper on crafters because it delays the need to purchase new gear, which was the whole point of adding in the durability changes. If you introduce an expiration mechanic, then introduce a way to prevent that mechanic, what was the point of having the expiration mechanic in the first place?

My counter-compromise with the notion of removing crowns from the crafting repair mechanic is to let the new Masterwork kits introduced this release have the max durability repair ability instead of crowns, and increase the minimum crafting skill required to make the kits to 80, which is effectively "master" skill level (100 being Grandmaster). This way, high-level crafters have a purpose beyond "doing it because we like it".

Giving crowns the abilty to repair gear is effectively selling power; the power to keep your in-game gear from breaking. While yes, they can be gathered in-game, the drop rate is low enough that those with extra cash will have a clear advantage over those who don't.​

Make the above adjustments to crowns, and I would have no problem whatsoever in paying a recurring monthly charge for a premium package that gives some in-game perks, and includes a handful of crowns.

While we're at it, I'm for the ability to pay lot taxes with crowns.

The core of the value in the bundles comes from the deeds / crowns / potions / basements / Add-On bonus items / prosperity tools, in my opinion.

You could easily break the row houses out ($40/60/80), and offer the helm/cloak/pet/chest as a bundle for $50.

 

I am the only one who thing that this makes now shroud pay to win?
Each month more and more you guys make my decition easy to sell my account....
So dissapointed at the moment

 

A step too far for me sorry.

 

The only way this makes the game P2W is if you think "winning" means keeping the same gear forever, and are willing to pay for the privilege. By design, gear is replaceable using in-game gold; the fact crowns had gold value is irrelevant, due to the gold rate drop. But if you are extremely lazy and NEVER want to replace gear, yeah this allows you to do so. But you are not part of the economy now. That hurts crafting, but it supports the game more directly so I guess I don't really care.

Every other use for crowns has no "win" scenario that I know of. Obsidian Potions are nice, but hardly overpowered. The only questionable benefit was the gold price. Dropping them from 2500 to 500 makes that almost negligible. Compared to their other uses, I can't see anyone selling one for 2500, much less 500.

So where is the "win" here?

 

So I get 45 crowns with my pledge. So I am instantly, financially, WAY better off than lower level pledges. I've been handed a large amount of gold without having to work for it/earn it. I can immediately fully decorate my house instead of having the satisfaction of earning deco piece by piece. Ditto armor/weapons. And of course I won't be able to avoid the temptation to use the crowns.

Just doesn't seem right. I think this will end up sapping my playing experience.

Edit: not nearly as much of a concern if crowns sell for 250 instead of 2500. At 2500 it's a huge economic advantage for higher level pledges. At 250, not so much.

 

Currently 10% of the player population is funding the majority of the game, I just don't think it's viable for that to continue after release. The studio needs additional revenue beyond that small sampling, and the crowns are a great way to get that revenue. I don't feel it's p2w as long as the In game crown drop is balanced correctly.

Regarding crafting, I hope we are moving toward a scenario whereas in order to repair an item to full durability you will require a COTO and skill level equal to the max durability.

Example 1: To repair gloves back to 50/50 you will require 1 crown and a minimum skill level of 50 in the pertinent craft skill
Example 2: To repair chest back to 150/150 you will require 1 crown and a minimum skill level of 150 in the pertinent craft skill .

Balance the game drops for those that want to grind out the crowns, let those of us that don't want to grind buy them, and utilize the above repair structure to ensure the crafter economy is successful. IMO win-win.

Tagging @DarkStarr, @Chris, and @Berek Because I have listed this in the postmortem asking if this is under consideration.

 

http://steamcommunity.com/app/326160/discussions/0/612823460253616430/?ctp=7#c364041517005636054

Now, to my message add:

"With COTOs you can create resources out of thin air, selling as many cash-bought coins to NPCs as your pockets allow, creating an unlimited faucet ingame".

I was like you, defending the game business model.

Then the model changed. And I cannot defend it anymore in good faith.

 

Unlike the in-game value of add-on items goes... the add-on store crowns will most likely be flat rated. And if they're flat rated - it gives gold a flat rate value to work from. It gives players an opportunity to bypass the in-game economy completely and without risk to acquire the rarest most desirable items in game (including homes and property deeds). P2W is going to be subjective in how it's given context - everyone's idea of what winning is their own in this MMO. If the add-on store crowns are flat rated against a player driven economy - well, it is what it is.

 

Flat rated?
What do you mean exactly?

 

@Jarl Atogrim - as an example of flat rate...

Choose any item (but the gold crowns) in the add-on store and assess it an in-game value. Now, take it to the in-game economy and sell it. The item's value in-game will fluctuate once our economy is up and running - based on supply/demand, crafting, nodes, etc... For Gold crowns to be effective as purchasable gold in the add-on store, Portalarium will have to flat rate their trade value to gold in game. The flat rate will guarantee that 1 Crown = X Gold regardless of the economy.

 

Wouldn't it be more useful to sell them on the open market to another player?