I can't find anyone selling the item I broke, so I'll have to craft my own

My apologies to @Berek if this tracks on the same topic as some other threads do, but I want to raise a particular issue that hasn't been addressed before and I thought it deserved its own topic so as to not get lost.

I only ever use Round Shields; this is my choice for purely aesthetic reasons.

Often, it's hard to find players selling them and NPC merchants don't sell them. In past releases, I'd try to pick some up from scenes or NPC locations if I couldn't find them sold on a public vendor. There were at one point round shields laying around Ferrig's Camp; I don't know if they're still there. As the map became larger and more developed, it became more of a problem to find, so I'd take time to go to a crafting station and make one of my own. Then, I'd come around public vendors every so often, and some player vendors in the streets, to see if they put up some better versions with some stat enhancements. When there was an enhanced version, I'd buy one immediately.

Near at the beginning of R29, I was lucky enough to find some Heavy Round Shields on a public vendor. Since I can't find a crafting recipe (and they look like the shield on the troll), I assume they're a drop. It broke. It still has some durability left to repair, so I'll see about repairing it; though eventually it will break for good. An Iron Round Shield would be good enough if I could find it, even though I'd prefer to come across the Heavy Round Shield I was able to buy. I checked around all of the public vendors in the cities, and player vendors I could come across, and nobody is selling any version of a round shield.

So, I'm going to have to end up crafting my own.

Now, with all my other gear, I've never taken the effort to repair the item, because I can find players selling replacements, and that's easier and costs less for me. It would cost me more money to repair my Longsword, Leather Armor, etc. than to replace it. And they're easy to find. So I just buy new ones, and sell my old ones to dump them. My gold goes into the crafting economy.

Now, if I could find a round shield, I'd buy one. But I can't. Maybe if I have a friend online who's a devoted crafter, I'll ask them for one. But what's probably going to happen is instead of buying a triangle shield or targe, I'm going to end up crafting my own. My gold stays with me.

I'm also not going to --
- Spend a CotO to replace my Round Shield, especially since its a starter level item. But, even if it were not, I'm not looking to spend CotOs to replace items.
- Look around every player vendor in every city, especially with the "bazaar bin" type of economy we currently have, where there are no shop signs, no ways of advertising on boards, and vendors just have random stashes of junk. I will look around from time to time, but will not devote much time to just finding an Iron Round Shield.
- Wait for a long time without a usable shield until someone puts a Round Shield on the market.
- Buy a different type of shield.

So I'm going to go and craft one.

On the other hand, if there was some way I could contract with another player through their vendor for a repair, and found someone that was reliable, I would do try to do that all the time. It would be worth it.

Maybe what I'm looking for will be more available by the time the server population is higher post-wipe. But I want to restate my view on this... I think that as long as its more expensive to repair than replace an item, crafters will always have plenty to sell.

They just need to sell new versions of the items that people broke, at a lower price than it would take them to repair. There's also talk about items with a history, or memory of kills, that give then enhancements and people keeping those weapons forever. That could use an entirely different solution; ie normal repair processes could destroy their enchantments, or be extremely difficult by anyone by a GM. So it could be seen as a different problem.

Others might disagree. I just wanted to air this, just to bring this particular issue to the table.

 

I do follow most of the logic, but I also got a bit lost due to the Crispin Ciders I've had tonight... but I totally agree with round shields. The only way to go, no nasty corners. I wish shields actually worked right now (defense too low to balance the offense of a 2H), but I have hope.
<-- lovely curve of the round shield there.

 

So in a game in testing where not many players are even in game nor crafting and no market is set, I am curious as to what you want?

You want a repair kit that does not cost as much as they do now? Since the ones in the game have a price set by the game I sure hope they stick with the fact that NOTHING should be in the game until it has at least be introduced by players.

So there should be only stuff like possible Coal, Wax and other crafting materials on vendor once the game starts.

At that point your round shield will not even be around until a player makes one or two and introduces them into the game an places them on vendors themselves. At that time you will then know where to find them.

Also during that time frame Repair kits should start to enter the game and I am sure that the prices will be all over the place and if the game has them itself that would just be wrong and not with how this game was introduced. Nothing should enter the game until a player introduces it.

Now is the time for you that I would start to network with people who are crafters or want to be crafters and start a relationship with them.

I would happily make you shields not and even offered to make anything for anyone as long as I get feedback on how they work and how the durability goes.

But I do not think there needs to be a "Marketplace" or anything like that setup.

And as for a contract for repairs - well that is easy you just buy a repair kit, I know you don't want to pay the game price for one since the shield it self is cheaper, but that should not happen after the game starts - in 2 months.

Oh and again if oyu want a round shield just find me in game ill happily give you some

 

I just looked on a Public Vendor to see if I could put a Purchase Order for an Iron Round Shield.. no.. I can't. Wish I could. Don't know how long it would take someone to fill it.

Still, I don't know what the difference would be in terms of the crafting economy for a Purchase Order vs. a Repair Order.

 

Actually they said that starting gear will always be available on merchants. They'd try to fill the merchants with player made items from the drop pool, but if there were none available, there would be a backup, just so starter gear was always available.

No need. I'm just going to make my own. Its easy enough.

 

@redfish as a crafter, I don't often pre-stock items. Too much fragmentation and i don't yet understand what demand is going to look like over time now (or material prices even)

 

Yea, right ? Why are they pushing triangle shields on us?! Whyyyy?!

 

Or you could just ask people on Discord if they can make you a shield.

 

@Roycestein Kaelstrom,

I might as well make my own, though; its no problem. Just go to a public crafting pavilion and I'm done. Do it after a while, and my skill will increase. The reason I'm bringing this up is just to show the ins and outs of the dilemma here. Its not helping the crafting economy in this particular instance that I'm going to take the initiative to craft my own shield. No gold is going to crafters. Everyone is talking about this as a game design issue from the crafter's perspective, but not the player's perspective.

One one thing that I think is cool and which I don't mind is the fact that if there is an item which is a drop (which I'm thinking the Heavy Round Shield is) is that I have to go on an adventure to get another one, or get someone to do it for me. I also think its cool that certain items are just rarer and saved for special locations in your bank and not used every day. Just taken out when you want to use it. I could put this shield back in my bank and use a less rare shield day to day.

And actually, I've never been dead set against item perma- breakage. I'm just bringing this up, again, so people can see the perspective of a player.

Right now I'm still curious about how long it takes for a 100/100 item to be permanently useless without a CotO to revive it, so if anyone can help me out on that from experience. Its one thing if I go on an adventure to replace any item every once in a while... its another thing if I have to do the same thing every few days.

Does anyone have any numbers on that right now? How many play hours before an item is dead?

I would argue that even with perma- breakage, it should probably be possible to maintain items, so, if the player puts in the effort, they last longer before they're irreparable. This would probably mean that the closer the item is to 0 durability, the more chance its max durability will break down and the harder to repair. The higher it is to 100 durability, the less chance its max durability will break down and the easier to repair. Or just a higher chance to break at low durability. Most people would be on the lazy side, leading their items to break faster. Someone who maintained his item would allow it to last longer.

Also maybe something like in Witcher where you can sharpen swords before going out, even just to get a buff.

Would be nice just to get Purchase Orders for equipment. Also would be nice if the whole player shops thing were more developed so I could actually find a shop I'm looking for.

 

All we need is an interface to search for (NOT BUY) items. Want a round shield? Here's the nearest 10 round shields on public and player vendors. In fact, here's the PRICES for the nearest 10 round shields on public and player vendors.

Now, go travel there and buy it. Voila. Problem solved.

 

No thanks agra. That would be awful for the game. And its also easy enough to craft my own round shield that I don't need to do a vendor search and travel to get it. There's a crafting pavilion right in the city.

 

Awful to know where to buy goods? Ok.

 

Also not in favor of the search. At the most something like an npc dialogue that displays name of a vendor(random sample) in the zone that sells the desired item.

 

@agra,

To explain why it would be awful: it would turn player vendors into bigger junk bins than they are now. Every player vendor would have random junk on them.

We want the game to go in the complete opposite direction, where there are distinct player shops that specialize in certain trades. Blacksmith's shops. Tailor's shops. Where people can find the items they need because of things like shop signs and advertisements. A blacksmith's shop would have a "Blacksmith's" sign, and they'd put an advert on a noticeboard "Come to Monkeysmack's Armory!"

Now, lets say I wanted an Iron Round Shield. I'd find a Blacksmith's shop, which I could tell was a blacksmith's shop because of the sign advertising it as such, etc. If they didn't have Iron Round Shields in stock... which I would hope they would... and which would be convenient, so I'd try to find a shop like that... Their vendor would allow Purchase Orders specifically for blacksmithing. I'd put in a Purchase Order for an Iron Round Shield. Or better yet -- a Repair Order.

How much better would the game be like that?

 

Add work orders, great. Are they searchable? Then how do crafters know who wants what, where? It's impractical.

If you think in the long term players are going to search manually through 200 PoT's and who knows how many NPC/PRT housing zones for that one elusive item... well, you have greater faith than I.
Hint: It's impossible. A single player can't do it. If they did nothing but search all the zones, they would run out of minutes in a day to complete even a rough inventory.

I understand the desires and wishes, but I see no path forward where it works out well with the current implementation for buyers or sellers.

 

@agra,

No, they're not going to search through 200 POTs, especially if all the vendors are junk bins like they are now.

But if people put up shop signs, that will help within a town. Putting adverts on noticebards will help across towns, encourage people to visit nearby towns for a shop.

Crafters will know if they can provide an item that they currently aren't providing because people will be placing Purchase Orders for them. The only way to reliably do that is by having craft-specific shops. I'm not going to place a Purchase Order for a Iron Round Shield on a junk bin vendor who carries a little of everything. I'm going to place it on a Blacksmith vendor.

So some Blacksmith will place an advert "Monkeysmacks Armory! In the next town over. Wide selection of shields. Will do purchase orders for blacksmithing."

I find him easily, go to his shop, put a Purchase Order. Next time, he might carry the product without a Purchase Order, seeing that he'll have a regular customer.

 

Once the system of crafting is fully implemented, I see it that a fail attempt will not only cost you fuel but also, raw materials ( ingots, straps etc) so, yes, for now, it is easy for you to make your own but, later on, in the coming months, if you dont have the skills, you will end up trying to craft a round shield that will cost you both legs and arms.

 

@Mobidoy Querrent,

Maybe, but I don't know how relevant that will be. If I have an item that's consistently not stocked by vendors, over time I'll get more skilled at making it.

I think we have to figure out how to create an economy that works for players, and an economy that works for players will also work for crafters. That doesn't necessarily mean no perma- breakage... but it does mean thinking beyond the problem of items breaking, I think. It means thinking about how to make crafters and buyers serve each other's interests.

I'm describing a lot of shortfalls of the current system, and just a lot of things that aren't in the game would help. Ways to put purchase orders (and repair orders wouldn't hurt). Ways to publicize and advertise shops (signs, noticeboards). Specialized shops will help with both of these. But we need to go beyond item breakage to figure out how the economy is going to work.

 

~Transitioning Skill Builds in SOTA's Classlessness~
Many players think I'm crazy or just babbling when I post on transitioning skill building, but it's just this lack of ability that continues to point in the direction of "not being just a this or a that, not being a mage, not being a knight, not being just a crafter".

"Not becoming a dependent on the economy is just another reason to embrace it"...

In the coming few months, I'll be attempting to forget all the knowledge I know about all the technical stuff within our game so I can then have a better immersive value to our game than having to check on the forums for all the answers for my in game needs. I know it's an impossible dream of mine at this point, but wouldn't it be nice to play a game with far less instructional, institutional gaming data having to be known?


Maybe even our pledge rewards will have a non-repairable durability expiration date in their future...
~Time Lord~

 

I, honestly, don't care much about your current shild issue. I really think that's a pre wipe issue.
But your statement is true non the less.
We got a lot of crafters here that want mesningful crafting. I am all for that. I am all for a player driven economy.
But some of them want to make a crafters game out of SotA, forgetting that the main Chunk of the players need some playability.
If I have to run in circles for two hours just to get my god damnd Sword repaired i am going to go nuts.
If that happens i am going to play a Hybrid that will be more or less selfsufficent. And I won't be the only one.