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Learning recipies - or the lack of

Discussion in 'Release 36 Dev+ Feedback Forum' started by liz_the_wiz, Nov 11, 2016.

  1. liz_the_wiz

    liz_the_wiz Bug Brigade - Bug Hunter

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    OK, lets open a bag of worms, in this case poisonous snakes

    It seems now we cant guess / experiment recipes.. so, how does this leave us

    a lot of us are poor broke morons, who dont have 8billion rich friends, or are new ish to the game. lets look at people like me then. so, Ive a few recipies Ive guessed at, such as I made a greenhouse and a well, some hardened epic leather and normal leather.. but thats kinda it. Im tired now of being squishy and want to get to plate and sword and shield..

    so I set about on qa making a sword with the ores I have.. a bunch of copper, iron, and tin.. I got a hilt mold but apparently I didnt need it O.O, I got a longsword blade mold..

    my blacksmithing is 57

    I couldnt make tin ingots cos that was too hard I apparently couldnt do that by myself
    I couldnt use the longsword mold cos apparently I didnt know how to melt something into it.
    I couldnt combine them toether cos I didnt know how

    by now I was kinda annoyed..

    let alone starting on the plate.. for which I have zero recipies, little clue on where to buy them.. and, I should point out, on live I have next to no cash in my hand either.. so 250 for each instruction, some molds, etc.. is tough..

    So, why are we doing this? are we doing it cos its too easy to go to a wiki get bits throw them in the right station and pull out items? in which case, you need to stop trading recipies. If you're doing it to lower the amount of crafting done and make people hate it, and want to charge a fortune for having done it.. spot on.

    I feel there is room for change and that we could do it without so much pain but still make it harder.

    so, you buy an "ingot" recipie, it contains all the lower more normal ingots, say copper, iron, tin
    you can buy an adv ingot which is silver, gold, etc..

    you want to craft a longsword.. you shouldnt need to buy 1 of each type (eg copper, iron etc), just how to make one, and that maybe experimentation only should work when you hit a certain point of blacksmithing and your chance of it working when you dont know it is lessened depending on how crap you are vs what level it needs... so at lvl 80 blacksmithing making a copper ingot (yeah you wouldnt have got there but go with it) is now pretty trivial..
     
  2. Browncoat Jayson

    Browncoat Jayson Legend of the Hearth

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    From what Darkstarr said suring the Postmortem, recipes should still be discoverable. Just you won't be able to discover ALL of them. Recipes can be bought, and can also be traded (just like emotes). That should make it much easier to learn.

    Ingots are made with smelting, not blacksmithing. The sword mold needs ingots to combine with it to make the sword blade.

    The current process of crafting is difficult to master, because it requires a different mix of ingredients for each item. That makes guessing the right combo extremely difficult. However, once you get one, the alternative versions are easy to figure out, since you just swap one ingredient. Its also not as deep as I hope it gets; there is basically three grades of armor for each type, and no real reason not to aim for the top first. Weapons are about the same.

    If you really want to get started, look for @Lace 's videos on YouTube. They are a great starting point. Then check out http://sotacrafting.wiki to find recipes.

    If you really want to buy them in-game, consider using the daily Oracle tithe. You can basically choose two free recipes every day. If you don't have property to maintain, its a great way to get started. On QA, make sure you hit Claim at the bank; you should start with some testing money.
     
  3. liz_the_wiz

    liz_the_wiz Bug Brigade - Bug Hunter

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    No I was using the right tools, I just typed the wrong stuff here, as a generalisation..

    the oracle hates me - 99% of the time I ask her what she thinks of my virtues, I do the test and she refuses.. so, I cant get the oracle cash.

    Im just concerned that if you cant maybe have someone say, in actual words to you "you need 4 ore, 1 coal and a mold to make an ingot" beginners will not be interested.. after all what I was trying to make, 1 iron sword, isnt exactly the most complicated thing (althoguh iRL it does take a lot of skill)
     
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  4. Scraps MacMutt

    Scraps MacMutt Avatar

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    Does anyone know how this is on QA? Can most of the recipes listed on the sotacraft, sotawiki, etc., websites still be unlocked by discovery? I was trying to test this myself but I keep losing my internet connection (Thanks, Comcast!).

    I already have a hard time generating much enthusiasm about our current crafting system so any additional impediments to the process really don't help.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2016
  5. liz_the_wiz

    liz_the_wiz Bug Brigade - Bug Hunter

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    The notes say low level will be descoverable, well if ingots, using a mold and simple iron sword doesnt count as fairly low.. god help us all
     
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  6. Spoon

    Spoon Bug Brigade - Bug Hunter

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    ???

    Step 1
    Start a conversation with the Oracle​
    Step 2
    Enter these three key phrases:
    Path of Love
    Path of Courage
    Path of Truth​
    Step 3
    Enter the key phrase:
    test​
    Step 4
    depending on which path, check what the oracle replied to it in Step 2, then depending on whether she thinks you show disdain - answer no, if she thinks you hold it in regard - answer yes.​
    Step 5
    prosper​
     
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  7. liz_the_wiz

    liz_the_wiz Bug Brigade - Bug Hunter

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    As I said, despite it all she often just says she cant answer and I dont get cash
     
  8. Themo Lock

    Themo Lock Bug Brigade - Bug Hunter

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    That is the answer she gives when you are dead even between disdain and regard, usually for players who have never quested or done much adventuring. There is no correct answer when you are in that state and can't get the gold from that jerk oracle >.<
     
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  9. Themo Lock

    Themo Lock Bug Brigade - Bug Hunter

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    Also, where the heck did you get a hilt mold?
     
  10. liz_the_wiz

    liz_the_wiz Bug Brigade - Bug Hunter

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    @Themo Lock , you can buy them in soltown, but you dont use them to make swords - it seems.. you just need 2 ingots.. so **** knows what the hilt mold is for :D
     
  11. Lace

    Lace Avatar

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    Instead of relying on third party websites you now need to buy recipes which implements another gold sink. I personally feel 250 gold per recipe is too high and always have which is why so many 3rd party websites have been created. This new implementation basically makes them useless.

    Now on the other side of the coin, the crafter has to work to buy the recipes or find a teacher which is not necessarily bad, but some will disagree. I know after a release and a new recipe comes out I go buy it then in nobles chat etc, the leeches beg for recipes or ***** about 3rd party websites not being updated quickly enough. It kinda annoys me that you dont's spend 750-1k per month on the new reciepes yourself.

    The issue is now the crafters are being gold sinked, when they were barely scraping by, and this will be another economic gold scarcity crisis since so many recipes are variations between materials instead of once you know the base, you can make the variations. They did say experiement so it may go away. Who knows. My GM tutoring event at least on the 26th will do recipe teaching as well to see how it goes and if that system works.
     
  12. Atticus Gryphonheart

    Atticus Gryphonheart Legend of the Hearth

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    I understand the need to buy/learn an occasional recipe, but is it possible to group a set of similar recipes together after you buy it.

    For instant. I purchased the Gaias ward gem and Gaias ward jewel recipe. I used the recipe and then created one. I then decided to try and make a sorcery ward gem and jewel. It didnt work using the same reagents. I thought...ok that make sense maybe it should use sulfurous ash instead of the reagent for the earth gem. It still didnt work. So i go buy the recipe and discover it same reagents as the Gaias ward gem and jewel.

    It seems since a simple substitution, they should be grouped together.

    Not sure if the same thing will happen with the different types of alloy weapon after you make it. For instant, if never made a white iron hilt with a constantine blade, only a constantine hilt with a white iron blade, does that mean until you find the recipe/are taught for constantine blade and white iron hilt you cant make it?

    I mean I can kind of understand why still might need the recipe (gotta crush the earth gem counterclockwise and introduce no liquids vs crushing clockwise followed spitting in the mortar). But at the moment it seems more of a time sink than a gold sink (Was forced to run back to the alchemist, buy that recipe, turn around and return).
     
  13. Weins201

    Weins201 Avatar

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    Another pathetic fix that will hurt any new players -

    Are they going to wipe everyone's recipe book so those that have learned everything are not the only one who know and then can sell their knowledge or items? Nope

    They are going to leave it so those that learned them all - either thru abusing systems and buying them all or just going in and learning them all from website before it this . . . .

    and any new player will be SOL


    Just like how thye will be at least 4 times harer to gain the exp to level now it will be stronomically harder for them to even learn recipie to make stuff.,

    Good Idea Fairy is running rampant.
     
  14. Scraps MacMutt

    Scraps MacMutt Avatar

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    That's what I was afraid of. I was debating logging in just to unlock as many recipes as I could before this change hit but I think I'll give that idea a pass. I seriously doubt that I have enough resources to craft most of the remaining locked recipes anyway. It will be interesting to see what effect this change has on an already tedious crafting system.
     
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  15. Lace

    Lace Avatar

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    Keep in mind they said some will be teachable and some of those teachable will be re-teachable allowing it to spread like a virus much like the 3rd party websites did. So it may take you spending the 250 gold or finding a teacher and you cannot re-teach it just like emotes.

    It will lead to more socialization something so many have complained about, will it be a growing pain sure, but you really should not have been going to a 3rd party website to avoid gold sinks IMHO (which many will hate me for saying this -- sorry folks i used your sites, tried to help sotawiki.net when I could with recipes. Yall call for immersion and cry against immersion breaking things, but no one really cried foul on going to the internet for recipes)

    I do think 250 gold a recipe is TOO HIGH based on current loot drops in gold
    @Chris ,@DarkStarr to get one recipe out of thousands I basically need to kill what 15-20 humanoid mobs depending on my level to buy just 1 recipe. (If I am a leather tailor that means double duty - I have to hunt humandoids to buy recipes and then wolves for my pelts, causing me to take 2 times the hunting timAs a low/medium level player that cannot infer recipes based on my crafting level which may be far higher than hunting level you have now effectively pigeon holed me to what 1-3 or so recipes per hour. The nodes are already guarded but you have further gated my progress based on gold which is further gated by my hunting prowess, of which I only increase in hunting humanoid zones regardless if I am a tailor or smith ... Just a devil's advocate preliminary thought.

    (Yes I know a tailor can get gold other ways from harvesting but there is still imbalance)
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2016
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  16. Spoon

    Spoon Bug Brigade - Bug Hunter

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    Are you one of those who never does any quests nor interact with NPCs?

    All you need to do to start Love is give a beggar a coin, all you need to start Courage is to fight a Satyr/faun, all you need to start Truth is to state your name to an NPC (spelled correctly).
    After that you should be good to go.
     
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  17. dp_dropout

    dp_dropout Avatar

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    Someone explain to me where the fun is in a crafting system which doesn't allow experimentation and discovery.
    I already spend far more time killing mobs to obtain resources than I do harvesting and crafting. On top of all this I now need to waste the little cash I have on recipies.
    Even as a grandmaster, I cannot use my knowledge to combine a few ingredients and figure something out for myself. Instead I need to buy a recipe from an npc... Joy!

    This game is slowly but steadily moving in a direction which I detest. Everything is becoming a time- and/or goldsink and there's more stuff in the cash store than in game.
     
  18. Themo Lock

    Themo Lock Bug Brigade - Bug Hunter

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    Almost nobody actually experiments, they look it up on a wiki. At least now some recipe will have some rarity.
     
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  19. Hornpipe

    Hornpipe Avatar

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    Also, keep in mind those who learned all recipes in the R35 won't be able to teach them in the R36

    @Weins201
     
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  20. dp_dropout

    dp_dropout Avatar

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    Why is that important?
    This is not an mmo where everyone ends up banksitting showing off leet mounts and gear.

    With the amount of money I make with my casual game style I will not ever buy something another player made, especially not something from someone who corners the market with rare recipes, simply because I cannot afford it.
     
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