Meaningful PVP

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Antrax Artek, May 1, 2019.

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  1. Alleine Dragonfyre

    Alleine Dragonfyre Avatar

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    Do you PvP?
     
  2. Earl Atogrim von Draken

    Earl Atogrim von Draken Avatar

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    Well, actually, that solves exactly 0 of the problems PvP has at the moment. It won't fix the technical issues. It won't fix combat and, most important, it won't give meaning to PvP.
     
  3. Hemswal The Descended

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    I absolutely support this post @Antrax Artek
    This is a nice list of the things a lot of us have been asking for, for a long while now.
     
  4. Alleine Dragonfyre

    Alleine Dragonfyre Avatar

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    @Lazarus Long I love PvP and this is the first game, in 20 years, that has it but I haven't participated.

    I won't PvP if its full loot or even partial and I'm sure you will find many will not. I'm not that strong and I don't have a lot of gear so I'm not giving it up so someone else, who probably doesn't even need it can have it.

    There are SO MANY other successful PvP games out there that don't touch people's stuff.

    /sarcasm/I love how people that don't PvP think this is a good idea. I guess it's okay when it's not your stuff.

    @Antrax Artek has a lot of great points in his OP. Leaderboards (on the SOTA front page) rewards, battlegrounds (battle royale is fucking HOT right now) etc... those are what is needed.

    For as often and as passionate the requests from the PvP community have been, I'm saddened how little is done to enhance what could be a great part of this game. I've seen pro gamers come to this game for the love of PvP here but leave for the lack of support of it.

    It seems to me that there are three camps here. \Simmers that love deco (Guilty!) PvE and Crafty Grinders (Guilty!) and PvP'ers (wanna-be guilty!) I love it all but in the almost 2 years I've been here, PvP has been the red-headed stepchild of the 3.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2019
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  5. golruul

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    Not sure if this didn't come through, but I tried to make it clear in my initial post that I'm all for Antrax's ideas (except 2). Then after some back and forth with Antrax, turns out I was actually okay with those 2 as well -- I just misread them.

    Some things (mo better PvE rewards for PvP) I'll never be okay with and I've been upfront with that as well. However, as far as I read, Antrax's ideas didn't breach this point.

    I'm actually all for his ideas to be implemented and it has my full support.
     
  6. Jikininki

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    A great thread Antrax, and some great ideas. Truly I hope “they” are reading and listening.
     
  7. Hornpipe

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    Actually, some of the most successful pvp games are battle arenas where you lose most of/all your stuff when you die. But in the meantime, with very few exceptions put aside, those games are not RPG and do not require more than few minutes/hours to get the proper equipment (finding a weapon quickly is part of those games, generaly, and sometimes even a butter knife is a wonderful weapon when the player has some skill). Then most pvpers have no problem with full loot or losing everything, as long as the game does not require weeks or months of playtime in order to recover what has been lost. SotA requires a full time job with crafting and grinding artifacts because the equipment has a central role, long before the player's skill (even the top pvp player with a starter equipment would barely win any fight against players who have approximatively the same skills and ingame experience). So you are absolutely right : full loot could never be introduced properly in this game.
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2019
  8. Earl Atogrim von Draken

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    The whole full loot thing is a glorified UO memory.
    I don't know where it comes from.
    I was there, let me tell you how it was back in the day.

    It is true that epic loot could be found back in the full loot times.
    In contrast to this glorified memory that didn't happen daily. It didn't even happen weekly or monthly. It usually happend twice a year when you met this....let's call it special person..... that tought it would be a good idea to run around in his/her prime equipment.

    The average PvP out of this times boils down to ganging up on one person (sometimes groups for the "gud fightz") and looting worthless junk equipment.
    That really doesn't give PvP any meaning and it get's old as fast as you can imagine after this short detour to the past.
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2019
  9. Spungwa

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    While i'm not against any of these ideas. They are not meaningful PvP to me. To me MEANINGFUL PvP is PvP that changes the history and "lives" of the players in this (virtual) world. Eve has meaningful PvP, you and your corp (read guild) fighting to create a new home, or defend your current home. When I say fighting I mean working together, as the fight is probably less than half the work that goes into a war campaign. For those that have played Eve and played in the realms of null sec and been involved in the planning and logistics of a war campaign, they probably know what I mean. For the rest this would be too long to explain.

    SOTA can not achieve this type of meaningful PvP in my opinion. The fundamental changes to the game that would be required would make it a different game entirely. If you want this type of meaningful PvP, you are probably playing the wrong game.

    There can however be mechanics to make FUN and REWARDING PvP, rather than meaningful PvP.

    What I want is PvP were you work together, involves and rewards preparation, uses all play styles. Open to all, so winning is not such as advantage that it makes winning again easier so as that no one else can compete.

    I want to see PvP mechanics that allow for non combat player to contribute on an equal footing to combat players. PvP is player vs player. PvP in it broadest sense is just competition between players. Merchants PvP all the time, much more than combat players.

    So in PvP scenarios set victory goals and give points every time you achieve these goals. Different goals are aimed are different play styles. The winner is the team with most amount of victory points achieved. Allow the other side to interfere with the opposition achieving those goals.
    Example of goals could be in a timed 1 hour PvP contest
    - Hold a point on the map for X minutes.
    - Craft X of Y which uses resources that can only be found in that map and gathered in that event.
    - Find 5 hidden items (for stealthy kinds).
    - Kill 10 players of the opposition.
    - Kill the oppositions "boss" NPC.
    - Destroy 5 oppositions siege weapons.
    I'm sure people can think of more. Think of play styles then think of things that would be fun for that play style to do.


    Regards
    Spung
     
  10. Scanphor

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    100% this. I played Eve for years and the PvP in that game was awesome. I can't be bothered with PvP in games like SOTA as it's ultimately pointless imho (and the game mechanics just don't make it fun for me).

    This game would need significant changes to reach that level of meaning though.

    Having said that whilst I don't see it ever becoming interesting for me the game clearly needs some PvP love for the significant minority who do enjoy it.
     
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  11. Alleine Dragonfyre

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    Welp, guess I won't be PvP'ing here if that stays then *shrug*
     
  12. Vicious Malice

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    Up! All of these ideas are great. Can we vote which of them we want implemented first?
     
  13. Joe Zhudarak

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    awesome thread i agree with all points stated. Of course this will demand a lot of work from devs but in a long term goal almost all can be achieved.

    they should start with leaderboards, faction system and rewards.
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2019
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  14. oplek

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    Because substantial parts of the world, and content, would be behind a PVP wall, as you seemed to be describing. Instead of an occasional zone, here or there, which are basically PVP arenas, there's major content I'll be forced to enter PVP in order to access. I didn't invest in a game, which was sold to me as 99% of the content was available to selective multiplayer, to suddenly have that drop dramatically. When the fundamental nature of the game sufficiently changes on me, I will be forced to quit, because it's not the game I bought and spent thousands on.

    .. or were you saying that consensual PVP will still apply in these zones? These are bulletted under "open world PVP", so at least to me, it implies broad sweeping changes to the available zones. Did I misread that? Or were these changes to the existing ruins/shardfalls?
     
  15. Cock of the North

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    I keep reading peoples comments saying things like "nobody who plays this game wants pvp development" and "only a small portion of the playerbase cares about pvp".

    People might actually play the game if it had fun pvp.

    I got an email telling me to come back because they are handing our free houses. Which sort of made me consider it for a moment but it seems like desperation.

    I still maintain that I would've liked to have been able to spend time playing the game to grind and build a house myself without having to pay a lot of real money to buy one. And I don't really want free handouts either.

    There is no real time investment in SotA that felt worthwhile to me. I invested all my playtime into levelling and grinding for gear to PvP only to still find myself too low level and weak to even contribute in PvP with the real PvPers so I gave up on the game having accomplished nothing worthwhile on all my time playing. I lost nothing by leaving because I still had nothing.​
     
  16. Elrond

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    New PVP/PVE craftable assets

    Rally Flag and Rally Scroll.

    Rally Flag - Allows you to drop a flag no matter where you are in the world , that sends an instant invite to all guild members to teleport to your flag location ( within 5-10 meters of the flag )...

    Rally scroll - Allows guild members to teleport to a flag location.

    I see this work very well when someone is ganked , if hes killed has like 30 sec ( i think) to get payback ...plenty time to drop a rally flag which instantly sends a message to all guild members ..Your guild member is under attack . Do you want to go help him ....if they click yes a rally scroll is consumed from inventory .

    Or

    Send a flagged low level into an area as bait..let him get killed..once hes resurected he can drop the rally flag and let the fun begin.

    Or

    Can also be used to quickly group up guild members into parties or raids ...as guild members receive the invite from the flag if they click yes they are instantly grouped into the flag owner party/raid.
     
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  17. Boris Mondragon

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    Allie; There are places you can PVP without ransom. Kahli is one such place and has some buildings that @Elgarion said are ok to be used. Do it like we did in UO, get some friends together and make up two parties then fight over a building. Have fun, get PVP practice but contact @Elgarion first. R/Boris
     
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  18. Boris Mondragon

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    ^^^^^
    What she said.

    @Antrax Artek , after a vote on priority of each one can you submit it to @Chris ? He has supported our big battles and is working with Raid/Group party feature. He can probably let us know what can be worked first. R/Boris
     
  19. Arkah EMPstrike

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    If kahli is ransom-free i might start hangin out there
     
  20. Xee

    Xee Bug Hunter

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    Agree on this, Full loot not for me, I carry too much on me all the time between deck sets etc. I don't want to have to micro manage my inventory because of PVP Chance.

    I think some thought should go into this, but I would be open to having the world in general no loot pvp with the exception let towns pick if they want pvp or not. would be so much easier if there was races and factions. maybe chaos vs order in the future??
     
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