my thoughts on the aftermath of a pk kill.

This is one of the good things I hope they don't change. The PvP mega post is as PVE friendly as can be. I hope they don't compromise any further. It seems likely that the special PvP resources will likely only a apply a PvP based enhancement to items anyway. So I doubt this will hurt PvE.

Although I wouldn't mind compromising to let the people in that particular area in SPO or FPO if those special resources aren't there, and they gather resources normally.

 

PvE'ers keep in mind, these areas aren't likely going to be as simple as walk in there with a gatherer and walk out rich. These areas will likely have mulitiple attackers laying in wait for a lone crafter. It will likely take a group effort to get these resources.

So this isn't about PvP people becoming rich and PvE people getting left out. This is likely going to be a community effort.


For example the Moongate Traveler's guild (MGT470) is not going to be a PvP guild. So by nature we will not be flagged for PvP, but we will have PvP people in it, (I'm speaking of myself and hopefully a few others). Depending on how these zones are designed (when we get more info), I would really like to see a few brave people join me in trying to get some of these resources for our guild. So we will need some people who has the gathering skills, and people who have the combat skills, and also willing to risk PvP to get them.

So the issue of having players gather special resources in a PvP contested zone, is not likely going to be a single player type focus. This type of content will likely be group based, with PvP. So this isn't really anti PvE, it may in fact be content for those who want to form a group and take risks together. So basically it's more than just saying "I'm going to flag for PvP, and I'll automatically be allowed to gather stuff a PvE person can't."... it's likely that a lone PvP player could not do this by himself.

EDIT: ALSO if this happens as I described it, our PvE only crafters could still utilize the resources that we PvP players gathered. The guild will benifit. So non PvP people may in fact get access to these special resources if they have brave friends willing to get the stuff. (PEOPLE WORKING TOGETHER AS A COMMUNITY) So this type of contested zone, actually causes ALL people to work together PvP or not.

 

As Isaiah points out very clearly, guild group efforts are and should be encouraged by our game. In each of the Ultima Primes as well as Ultima Online, it was guild efforts through mixed fellowships that always determined great outcomes or not.

In the early days of UO's Siege Perilous in order to become the most powerful Order Guild of the Shard, "The Fellowship Guild" accompanied it's miners and gatherers with armed escort of overwhelming force into the deepest and most dangerous mining and gathering places and were able then to equip themselves through group effort in order to stay the dominant Guild and thus rule the shard for well over a year.

Then I had to organize the Chaos Guilds to form an alliance just so that the Fellowship would have a proper force to be able to fight against... but that was another story
~Time Lord~ (aka the first player named Hamlet of SP shard)

 

Forced grouping and forced working together will only drive people away. Extremely bad idea. MMO does not mean I have to play together with other people.
If people do not want to join a guild or play on ungodly hours when the world is pretty much deserted they are being punished. Every area and dungeon in UO was solo-able if you were good. Some extremely tricky and easier with a group, but you never felt like you were up against something impossible.

Second, I do not care about PvP whatsoever. I do not wish to do it, to influence it, to determine how it should be done etc. All I want in return is the exact same courtesy when it comes to my style. Limiting me to certain area's is one thing, but having rare resources and animals more abundant in PvP zones compared to regular zones is very bad and very lazy design. PvP should be rewarding by itself without incentives which have an impact on everyone.

 

If the whole game were forced to be that way I would agree. However with a game like this, there can be many facets of gaming all in one game. The sandbox nature of the game allows us to progress without following a single path. Therefore, we just do the stuff we like doing. If you don't like team work and stuff like that you don't have to do that stuff.

Personally I like traveling alone quite a bit, even in PvP. I believe this game will be a good single player game, as well as have many other options. Heck we can just be a crafter, and play chess against people in a tavern. We never have to be a combatant if we don't want to. Although just like the real world, traveling alone from town to town might require one to be able to defend ones self. So non-combatants should travel together, and possibly with somebody able to fight.

 

that is good because most of the pk's want full loot. Thanks

 

I guess the only think I am concerned with is:
If it is not balanced right, the pvp zones will be like felucca post AoS. If the PvE'r do not feel like they have a chance in trying to get a rare node, they will not take it. The PvP areas will be the same people fighting the same people day after day. There might be some initial carnage and pillage but that would fade after a couple weeks when people realize its not what they want to do. So again, there needs to be a balance or it will be a lonely world for some peeps. You have to come to the middle on this guys, pve and pvp. (sits back and waits for all the old classic responses...but still needing to hear new and collaborative talk)

 

I agree with all my PvE Heart..

 

It is called risk vs reward and since PvP+PvE players take higher risk's the higher reward is perfectly fine and make sense.

It is also a way to balance the resource gathering output since having the exact same quantity of resources in "safe" PvE areas will make it unbalanced and favor players only doing PvE.

 

Its only risk vs reward if you can get people to go there....

 

Maybe the selective multiplayer could be used to mix up who pvpers see from time to time. I cant imagine people giving up on the resources even if tjey see the same people.

However if you see the same people and you know what to expect it will become more difficult for all involved since people will adjust and bring forces to counter.... or some may give up if a certain team is always dominant... more likely if there isn't a chance to be mix-matched.



Sent from my Galaxy S5 using Tapatalk.

 

I don't think anyone is being forced to do anything with this proposed system. They said that these resources will be available outside of pvp, though likely in less abundance. Also some of the things that will be in pvp zones are pvp specific thereby not appealing to pve players anyway. Who is being forced in this scenario?

"But jugallo, I want to be able to gather resources faster and find them easier but the only way to do that is to go into the scary pvp zone".

If you want to go into pvp zones to get resources and are worried about getting attacked then bring some friends. dropout mentioned an MMO shouldn't mean that you have to play with other people all of the time. I agree with this, and think this is accounted for in that a single player will still find the resources they would seek in the wild, it just might be harder to locate them and take longer. I think this is a good design because while you may not want to group and play with other people you should not expect to get the same results as a group of people coordinating together.

I mean, that's the point right, to be in an MMO...to engage in multi-player? Sure you don't always have to be grouped up (or even most of the time), but at some point I would imagine you would want to play with other people right? If that's not the case, that's fine, but don't you think there should be some encouragement for people to get together in a group? Don't you think their should be some encouragement for people to work up the courage to try pvp out? Otherwise it would just be a bunch if people playing a single player game next to each other. That sounds awful to me.





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The way I see it...if the zone has more resources in it it should also have a PVE element in it. That way if there are no people there to PVP with it won't be a cake walk to walk in and gather those resoursces. Otherwise I could see this being taken advantage of.

 

I believe many are willing to compromise. you like to talk with Ara, who is a big supporter of full loot, but has on several occasions said he likes a compromise looting proposals from Envy, and Ristra.

I think Envy had a couple of good ideas in his looting proposal, one was time related. Ristra's seems to be a more refined version of a similar idea. Taking time to loot etc.

*******

So the point is several of the full loot people have been willing to compromise on some of these in recient threads over the past month. If they can compromise at all that means to me that if it were expressed properly that whatever system will reproduce the feeling of risk vs reward, they might be open to it.

I think the more logical ones will be willing to accept it, and the guyz whu thnk full lootz is da only way in life... will never get it, but maybe those are the acceptable few that will either deal with it or leave. I don't want people to bad mouth SotA anymore and say they have no PvP when in fact there isn't going to be full loot. Yet the reasonable PvPers that see that the compromise makes sense, might be able to handle it.

If after participating in alpha they enjoy it, maybe they will be less likely to be bitter. That might require some refinement on the system though because the phat full lutz peeps might not understand that it is a rudimentary alpha version of PvP anyway.

 

What you're saying is that a pvp zone should not be void of npc's and mobs? I would agree with this for sure. I think the interesting factor comes with the added danger that is present in a zone where you CAN be attacked by another player. But you're right that doesn't necessarily mean that you WILL be. In this respect I think these zones would be like any other zones except that players can steal from you and loot your corpse if you die.

As far as looting is concerned in pvp I think it is something that is important to address. Sure, skill is involved in pvp and combat mechanics need to be compelling. But looting corpses is also important to a pvp player for several reasons.

1. a pvp player does not get many opportunities to collect loot. There should be some reason other than "let's test my skills against this guy". Maybe he has a nice axe and you won't to kill him and take it!

2. Pvp life is generally pretty expensive. Equipment to compete costs lots of gold, repairs, replacing lost pieces, potions, band aids, reagents etc. are not free. Couple that with reason 1 and you can see how this is something to be concerned about.

3. It helps to keep skills a main factor along with equipment. Experienced pvpers are not going to bring anything they don't plan on losing to battle. This helps keep really over powered equipment out of the mix so players are (roughly) on the same level skill wise.

I'm sure there are more reasons but I think those three cover my thoughts on it. What do you think?

 

Also with the incredible breakthrough that the PvP player owned city idea is, the most hardcore of the PvP players will probably gravitate to those areas to fight, leaving the massive number of hexes out there that are wilderness PvP probably with less chance of outright deathmatch type stuff.

Still, it will be thrilling to spot players out in the woods and ambush them, or vice versa !

 

I said it before and I will say it again: I payed for access to 100% of the game and not 90% or whatever. Preventing me from going into certain zones just because I am playing in single player or friends only mode is taking away a portion of the game from me. Would be the same if I had payed for a full menu but I am not allowed to eat the fries. This is not ok. Sorry.

Why not let me into this zone, exploring it but I won't be able to find PvP stuff and PvP resources if I enter in SP or FP mode? And if I am in OPO mode I am automatically flaggend for PvP. This would be ok and fair. But preventing people from entering those zones just because they are in SP or FP mode is discriminating.

 

Discriminating is such a harsh word that carries negative connotations. Are you sure this is discrimination or were you just trying to drive a point home by using a word that carries other connotations? You realize that 100% of the game would mean you have access to other players houses and dev only areas correct? Do you feel as discriminated knowing that you can't come into my house unless it is unlocked? To me it is the same principle...

 

Somehow it is discriminating because of the way I choose to play I am not allowed to do something. If I decide to play in single player mode and an area appears, for example a crater after a meteor strike, I won't be able to explore this area because it is for PvP only?
I am fully aware that there have to be some compromises made for example with private property of people - ok, fine it's private property and if I play in SP offline mode I will be able to enter the houses as then those are NPC houses. But a "public" area that could potentially be interesting for every player because it is a part of the world and worth exploring should be available to every one, regardless of the mode he/she plays in. As I said if I won't be able to find special PvP resources if I won't enter it in Open Online Mode and participate in PvP would be ok. But setting some magical barrier with the words "SP gamers are not allowed to enter" just like dogs are not allowed to enter a restaurant is not ok.