NB Astronomy 101 *SPOILERS*

I'm disappointed in this news. There are still some (at least to me) major issues with the night sky:

• The Lunar cycle has two main issues. First, it is non-visual (and really should not be). The moon needs to have visual differences throughout the lunar cycle. Second, it is WAY too fast. Unless it changed in R24 (I havn't got to play yet), it was cycling through all the phases in just over a day in-game! This should be closer to one real day (24 in-game days), although I'd prefer either a 14-day or 28-day cycle, to honor one of the moons in the previous games.
  
  
• During the day, all of the celestial objects should fade. Compare our moon during the day and at night; I'd think all of the satellites would have this type of change during the day, just like the stars fade out.
  
  
• I don't like that the only eliptical is along the same path for all of the planets. None of them are in counter orbit, and none revolve along a different plane. That seems odd. Even looking at moon orbits of planets with multiple moons, none have exactly the same plane of orbit with their siblings.
  
  
• Finally, I think a pass needs to be made to make sure the planets layer properly. For example, the earth-like satellite would need to be closer to New Britannia in order to see the detail we can, while the lifeless orbs could be (and probably are) larger, yet further away so they appear roughly the same size.

I did really like some of the announcements in the video:

• The eight planets ARE related to the virtues, and alignments of the planets are important to the plot (movement of the leaders, enemies, etc). In effect, the astronomical movements have "spiritual influence" on the world!
  
  
• There will be a mystic spyglass-like object that will allow you to view a layer of the sky to see constellation outlines!

Very cool!

 

Oh I totally agree.. but when they said they were surprised no one has figured all this stuff out yet I can't help but think that they don't have any plans to change. I am hoping that collecting enough data will aide in providing a case for changes to be made. I'm even thinking of building a 3D presentation here.. maybe even animated to build a case for changes. But the current data will have to be collected first.

 

Six or seven months ago, I was excited about trying to gather that type of information. I waited, because of issues with the dates and displays (per my Calendar topic), and due to the obviously non-functional, non-sensical moon cycle. I'm sure I could be quite a close to unlocking those timings had I not, but I won't have time to gather any information again until probably February. I'll be lucky to get in to each release and collect my hat.

Keep us informed of what you find, Bowen!

 

Will do.. and thanks for the link. I had missed it but heard you had something going and was wondering where it was.

 

Do you want us to post observations here, or in the "Astronomy 201" thread?

 

201 please.. thanks for helping out.

Oh and feel free to verify my findings as well if the mood strikes.

 

They should make some kind of house with a observatory
perhaps the lower part would look like a hill simular to the elven house (but without any in it)

 

That would be very cool but unfortunately I don't they could justify much functioanlity except maybe with a giant telescope maybe you could look through it and be able to move the view around.. but I can only imagine that it would be physically static which would be a shame. I would totally want one though. I do know that they're at least planning on having normal telescopes and at least 2 groups/players are planning to build their own observatories. I'm looking forward to visiting them.

 

I am fascinated by the heavens in SOTA. Bowen and others, thanks for the great info in this thread.

Here are a few screen shots of planetary alignment (4 planets) and a double solar eclipse.

I like the concept of an observatory. Having a telescope would be a nice feature, but I am not sure it is needed for tracking the heavenly bodies (which can be done without a telescope).

Hopefully, celestial events will influence certain aspects of the game . If so, we will need a way to predict when these celestial events will occur, and An observatory would be a perfect place to obtain these predictions.
Perhaps we could have multiple observatories: one that tracks the planets, one that tracts the stars and constellations, on that tracks the fractured moon, the black hole, and the sun.
An ongoing "quest" could entail going to all the observatories and getting tracking paths on the celestial bodies, and then figuring out when major events will occur (such as planetary alignments, eclipses, planets crossing through a constellation, etc). For those willing to put in the work required, this could open a new role in the game: the astronomer.

In ancient times, many clans chose the timing of their battles based on celestial events. Astronomers could be used to help guide actions in SOTA.
Example: when a certain planet crosses through a certain constellation, fire magic stops working. Perfect time to hunt the phoenix! But you need an astronomer to tell you when the celestial alignment will happen.

 

I'm just catching up on the R24 Hangout and was also surprised to read here that they say it's pretty much complete. I had been holding off on any other observations for quite some time because I thought there were going to be major changes in future releases as I also felt there were some problems still. I guess we'll just have to do a full analysis now and report back?

 

I've done enough now that I feel I've made a strong case for showing areas that need fixing. Some of that is in the 201 thread and I posted a new topic reporting my observations. Of course I'm more than happy if anyone wants to confirm or disprove whether my findings are accurate or not.

But a big part of it is how closely they want to represent the old Britannia solar system. With what we have now and we know from Ultima and the current state I'm willing to bet that they are aiming for accurate duplication.. if not.. well there is still one or two issues that need to be resolved while one or two others aren't quite as important.. but in the very least the orbit times do need adjusting.

 

Just officially confirming through my many observations.. the dumbbell IS purple.. the whirlpool IS indeed black. This evidences for this is the planetary order and confirming that order by observing which planets pass behind which.

 

I wish I had better words for this, but I'll just let it all dribble out to see if there's any echoes of connecting thought....
*we're not there yet?*

"Do we have a beginning and an end within our zodiac yet?"
(everything first needs a beginning and an end for any measurements to be calculated from as an agreed upon standard)
Aries being what the RL zodiac takes as a zero point beginning, then each constellation is placed within the continuing 360 degrees. The RL zodiac has many more constellations relative to Astrology which do not "rule" the degrees they occupy, yet have and serve in relevance to the "ruling constellation" which occupies 30 degrees.

*mandala*
"Are we able to mandala any transits yet?"
As within RL astrology, there are patterns within each transit of planets that take shapes of interest, if even only for art's sake or providing for some meaning or event. For example, Venus gave us the pentagram and that same pentagram became a very common sight even in and during Ultima.

*conjunctions and effects*
"The effects of our astrology could be as layered as RL astrology"
The sign a conjunction happens in could have an effect, mixed with the two planets involved, or even a single planet moving through it's "ruling sign" could have an effect of significance, or even the same planet passing through any other or even sign that is contrary to it's ruling nature could have an effect.
To me, one must look at the entire sky as if it's a bag of mixed regs that's casting one large spell, with whatever significant transit being what triggered the noticeable effects, while a somewhat normal sky with no conjunctions, the common observer may never notice any effects, "yet the effects are always there".

*conjecture on effects*
The obvious vs the subtle, or is this obsession of conjunctions the end all be all of having any effects?
Are we going to live in a "light switch world" where we are only looking for an obvious within our skies?
Will nothing be being effected at all when no obvious is present?

A layered effect from the constellation, to each planet and also the conjunct planets as well as the, could be being in opposition to it's native or ruling constellation.... (endless combos)
"This to me is what could cause our world to actually breath" What is happening around our world could have effects within different areas or having one thing happening to the entire planet, and all at the same time. The subtle event as well as the dramatic, all tied to our time... which is and should be depicted by our skies.

That's enough of my dribble. Not eloquent, but I think there's some things to ponder or at least enough for me to find out what I need to know to catch me up to speed on this issue
(Just a real astrologers point of view)
~Time Lord~

 

As I have no interest in astrology I mostly have no idea about any of that. What I can tell you is common events happen so frequently and are so short lived that it's highly unlikely they'll have any real meaning in game mechanics or lore.

Take Purple for example.. Purple has an orbital time of 2 days.. so it can be said to pass through or by all 14 constellations in that time.. including the Chalice which I suppose you would call its ruling sign or whatever which it would do every 2 NB Days.. or 12 times an Earth day and that would last less than an Earth minute. There would be very little point in coding any kind of noticeable effect for that.

As it is.. the sky still needs some work.. and there are currently no effects in-game.

 

Sir Bowen, What would you say would be the likely candidate constellation for the beginning sign of our zodiac wheel?
I think that's our most important beginning for our 360 degrees.
~TL~

 

Well making a lot of assumptions.. there would be 3 possible candidates.. The principles (and presumably the virtues) are traditionally listed in a particular order.. Truth, Love & Courage.. and it's a virtue system being represented.. so either the constellation of virtue/order (it hasn't been officially named) or either the Book or the Hand.. being the Book of Truth or Hand of Honesty. As virtues are derived from the principles then the Book trumps the Hand in my opinion.

On that note.. there is also the Ethical Hedonism symbol which is replacing Infinity which I personally find to be unfortunate.. but Infinity is the axiom of the virtue system.

However.. I also argue that the order they appear in the sky is messed up.. and if they appeared in the traditional order then Ethical Hedonism would appear last.. and the Hand would appear first.

Take your pick.

 

Great Answer Sir Bowen,
I would suggest within your objections to the current order of the signs, that there could be method within our Lord British's madness that may have something to do with either his sequencing of events/effects, or within some mandala yet to be revealed, we will see.

*Ruling Sign Planetary Effects*
I do agree that our planets do move quite quickly through any sign, yet in rhetorical to the assumption of our dismissal of such...

"Crafting"
Crafters of any specially enchanted item could make use of such a passing of a planet through it's ruling sign, as most crafters could wait upon the crafting table for such an event to come and pass quickly. There could be a "best time" to use a particular gem stone, another best time to enchant it and still another that would best be enhanced when placing such within a weapon for it's better future usage or durability. In such a lightly quickly passing enhanced time a particular pie could be more properly made and carry it's effect back to the eater of such enhanced pie. Indeed the manufacturing of any carpentry, nail or other instrument could take advantage of it's creation time or usage timing. Clothing could glow or sparkle when such a short passing of such in the sky happens, thus choosing even your clothing for any hunt or PvP could take on a better involvement between the players and their stars.

"Combat"
Within any pitched battle some small percentage could be enhanced in effects where any ruling planet passes through it's home sign. this may seem too light an effect to some, yet when a player had been defeated by some large almost obtainable adversary, knowing when to wait for such a small boost could prove crucial for their winning desires.

"PvP"
When an end all be all tournament player becomes the end all be all, our tournaments could loose their flavor of enticement for others to join in, or have a chance at defeating that end all be all player by the luck of the time placement within the tournament. Thus within our tournaments, such a relevance of astrology even within the moment becomes something to talk about while the spectators are gambling on the sidelines asking themselves, "will that small percentage be enough to take their chosen champion through, and what that may mean for their champions continuing success if in fact they survive their first tears of competition as the tournament wares on".

"Mass Combats and Wars"
In such a small percentage of advantage within ... say... using the timings of the planets through the signs in the choosing when to best employ available mages vs available warriors, or when to press any attack with those different troops advantages depending on the stars and signs to better effect their desired ebb and flow or when to say "take the hill". Within Roman times in RL such timings were counted on within any large attack plans the commanders had for the coming event. Stars and signs were of great significance and could become for us here in our SOTA as well. Fore even a small percentage of boost to any particular fighting discipline could and would, within that short effect become quite significant, where the un-adept commander may disregard such to his unfortunate folly. If for instance, a planet associated with the sign of the Ank could be passing the Ank and thus any good commander could immediately say to everyone "Everyone Heal!" and thus turn the tide of a battle. Such commands given at the right time within any planetary effect, though small could have great significance in many differing small skill enhancements and when combined by the amount of people being enhanced, even lightly, that compounding could and would effect the battle.

I'm not sure that any of this hits home for anyone's desires, or how much coding anything similar to this would take, yet it could greatly enhance the player's experience the more we bind our constellations, planets and transits to them...
Even when small effects seem light, when combined and properly planned, a day in the life of we and our stars would entice a deeper sense of our magical experience and become a greater enticement to our game well over our venue's competitors.

Anyone have any thoughts to any of these things?
The rhetorical has always proven itself our most meaningful improvements.

What Say Any Here?
What is impossible?
What is possible?
~Time Lord~

 

The current problem with all of that is that any such influences will A: Be so short lived and B: be at such odd times for everyone that they'd be far too rare. We're talking 5 minutes in the middle of the night once every few weeks kind of stuff here. Or worse.. in the middle of the day while you're out at work.

In order for any event to have any meaningful impact it not only needs to be predictable but something everyone has an equal and fair chance to take advantage of.

 

Good Answer Again... but needing refinement within rhetoric as we talk here about...

~Balance~
I would argue and also agree; That any and all that ever will pass effecting our lives through our stars will be short lived unless the effect lasts longer than the cause and thus the stars "trigger an infection like effect" upon our world who's enhancements within any and all profession would be saved within their effected lands, tools or atmosphere... yet not to any personal skills as fore mentioned.

Thus we are left with the stars effecting either or both of our equipment for use or environment for we to stomp or farm out. Which all leads to believe, if any of the stars have any effects, then those effects could never be profession exclusive unless there were a ruling planet that effected a single profession thus eliminating any professional bias of the star's advantages or usefulness within our game.

Eliminating the professions or any single skill set in crafting or by combat skill set does seem to be something of an odd player out situation, where, "we know for fact that our planets will somehow effect differing magi skills" (or that's my understanding), thus having advantages to being a mage over the warrior skill sets, unless through equipment exclusive to them could be therefore crafted or included.

~Balance~ of our past mistakes without stars...
Within the world of our Ultima Online pasts, that game had many tipping scale things happen to it, where a normal player without any mage or taming abilities couldn't have balance with their mage counterparts. Put quite simply, the days of the pure warrior finding balance with their profession's other contenders was short lived by the rise of magic. Certainly our warrior classes here within our SOTA and with a credit to it, we do have a sort of mix between magi and warrior... yet if crafting is not included within the star's effects, then those of the non-combative sort will be left out unless perhaps warrior and magi needs rise as a result of any effects.

Hindering as well as helping us as players: "The stars within our real lives as well as within our emerging SOTA will within their great or subtle effects will come to be kind as well as hinder us"... at ~Time's~... yet that some alignment's effect could have astrological effect rather than any effect of astrology, being a rain of atmosphere upsets, or through a quasi astrology effect of spawning resource or enhanced skill sets, or even the spawning and/or availability of any quest thus related to our stars.

~Observations~ in a compelling life through the stars...
As a RL Astrologer I see the planets as raising the questions, which are them weighed against what the person has or could have going on within their life, be it an animal or human or even vegetable.

As a SOTA player Astrologer, I could even see such effects having consequence to our minerals as well as all of the fore mentioned through spawn triggered by an astral trigger. How long those effects would last could have a finite measure and thus emptying out as those who know first through the art of prediction would be awaiting the bounty. Thus, "taking off from RL work that day or making time for such an event" as Sir Bowen mentioned could be a possible predicted thing to enjoy, and for all others who are unfortunately tied up as the quantity of the effect could last a while.
I could also see that if quests are spawn of such, they could have a trigger and an ending time limit that could be predicted by the stars as the stars would resolve such by opening another virtue's quest as I described in my fore mentioned statement of, astrology of the stars providing the questions... and if a player doesn't get their desired outcome or closure from that question, it is then very predictable of when another chance at the answering will come back around as the stars progress. As a mass personal, privet and even public effect, such questions to our karma through quests would have the effect of placing every player under the game's own spells, as everyone playing would be thinking about or disregarding the quest of questions at hand.

All of what is considered within the above points to "Sub-Seasonal Effects" that would one day return such as a season of Truth or any of our other virtues. Yet I do caution any creative lot within us to consider any unbalancing effects that once made, are not easily unmade, thus killing or being the detriment of game enjoyment to any of our professions to be somehow left out from our bountiful stars...

I do say though to the rhetoric of Sir Bowen, "that the stars wait on no man to enter or exit their quickly fleeing nature".

~The Power of Astrology and Things That Move Through Time~
Within our game we must consider that even a small, short lived and seemingly insignificant effect has the effect of an unstoppable force with insidious unrelenting nature to change or time our own nature not by choice, yet with questions of choice adding to the drizzling rain that becomes the tsunami.

I sat and watched the hands of the clock reach 12 noon, and "they made me hungry" as I was not before...
or was it just ~Time~ for lunch?

Questions demand the mind's of us considering...
~Time Lord~

 

I finally made the the time to educate myself with the help of @Bowen Bloodgood and man did I get my bang for the buck!.

I was so enthralled by his knowledge I want to help promote all the threads, and observations he has made to all in the community.

It was one of the best 1 hour time slots I have spent in the game since I first arrived.