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New Pledge Rewards, New Pledge Tiers, Player Owned Towns & Stretch Goal Store Megapost

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by DarkStarr, Jun 5, 2014.

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  1. Spoon

    Spoon Avatar

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    I think that this is what the Blackfriday sales are all about for SotA. Last time it was +15% credit.
    But you have to wait a year to get it.
     
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  2. Cordelayne

    Cordelayne Bug Hunter

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    I can understand your inclination to believe that it wouldn't be fair but it happens to us all the time. :D For example, new iphone comes out. People wait in line for hours to be the first person to buy one at $600. Then after about a month or so the price drops drastically as to capture the rest of that market. Video games are another good example of this. People pre-order their PS4 and Xbox 360 for an insane amount of money, few months later the price drops. Technology is the most common area in which this sort of thing happens the most often. Those of us who are lining up to be the first buyers of such goods are what Wall Street refers to as "innovators" in that market. Companies know there will ALWAYS be people willing to pay a premium to be the very first to acquire a commercial good they deem a "must have". The concept is comparable here, as well.

    Fair or not, that is capitalism at its finest and it happens every day. I paid full price to be a Lord Marshall and am extremely happy to have done so. If a sale allowed Portalarium to increase revenue and players the opportunity to expand their tier level, I think that's a win for us all! :)
     
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  3. Ice Queen

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    Yes, a few months after release of an item that's typical of the prices going down and on sale. This is not a released product. This is an alpha game and with the pledges we pay for tiers, we're paying for the extra rewards for buying the game early and reap the special rare rewards. To give those rare rewards cheaper now, would be a slap in the face to all those who support the game early for those extra rewards. Now after the game is released, that's a different story. There will be sales and that's all good for a released game to continue adding players. If they wanted to release the pledges at lower prices, and take away the rent free from the deeds and take away some of the rewards included that's fine, but no way should there be full rewards and benefits for reduced prices before the game is released. Besides Portalarium has already said they have plenty to finish the game, reducing pledge prices is not needed. This is a buy to play game that will depend on new sales and add on sales from the cash shop, that's where they need to focus efforts for more money.
     
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  4. Cordelayne

    Cordelayne Bug Hunter

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    Thank you for your response Ice Queen! I understand and am sympathetic to your opinion/concerns. :)

    It does not matter whether the game is pre-alpha or finished product, it is still an asset that can be leveraged for financial gain should the company choose to do so. Even more so since the game is in pre-alpha where revenue generation is key! Otherwise think of the alternative, lack of funding means the possibility of any company having to shut their doors and filing for Chapter 11, Title 11. Which would then mean no SoTA at all (perish the thought :)). Again, I haven't seen Portalarium's budget, P&L statement or balance sheet, but any new company trying to bring a product to market (whatever that market might be) needs to generate revenue. It's the most costly, time consuming and difficult part of the process in any industry. I'm sorry you view a sale in such a capacity (which was all hypothetical mind you) as a "slap in the face". I think that's a rather myopic way of viewing it. Not only does it generate revenue for the company but it allows long time players the ability to raise their pledge to a tier they might not have been able to previously achieve. Unless you are a LoTM backer, you yourself could benefit from a similar type of sale as well.

    You state that Portalarium has said that they have plenty of funding to finish the game, from a PR standpoint I wouldn't expect them to say otherwise (I think we all would freak out if they did ;)). Yet to my knowledge the company has roughly around $18 million in operating capital ($4 million seed funding 2009, another $7 million in Series A VC funding and then roughly another $7 million from the players). Let's make it an even $20 million, that's still not enough when you consider World of Warcraft cost $30 million (back in 2004) and Rift is estimated at $60-$70 million. I use those two as examples because they are both MMO's whose information is public. Portalarium, being a privately held company, does not have to release any budgetary information, unless they so choose.

    PHEW! :D In the end, we all want the same thing, a successful launch of SoTA and continuation of the wonderful community that surrounds it. Whether that be the folks at Portalarium, we the players or our significant others who bear the brunt of our endless hours of gaming! Lol ;)
     
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  5. Cordelayne

    Cordelayne Bug Hunter

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    LOL :)

    Totally missing the point and CLEARLY didn't understand what I wrote, but that's ok! :D
     
  6. Interitus

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    This is me. I started at Explorer. Went to Edelmen, then Knight. Knight Marshal, Lord (which I swore was my last). And now I'm sitting at Lord Marshal. And literally the reason I didn't go to Baron was because there were smaller increments going between the pledges. So it was easier to say. Sure I can upgrade my pledge here. Or one more tier won't hurt. But the difference between Lord Marshal and Baron stopped me. There is very little in that category that I want. Now if there was something in the $2600-$2800 range. I might seriously look at it. It's easier for me to justify when it's only smaller chunks at a time.
     
  7. Gabriel Nightshadow

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    [quote="Cordelayne, post: 356415, member: 134912"

    If you were to extrapolate that data into a simple excel spreadsheet, I think the results would show a simple underlying commonality. Given proof of concept and financial capability to do so, people will pay more to become a Lord, Baron etc. Yet, as mentioned above by many folks, there is most likely a HUGE dropoff when it comes to making that jump to Baron. Myself included, because the extra income investment doesn't seem worth it to me. Think about the thousands of dollars being left on the table then. Here I am (and obviously others) willing to keep paying more but unwilling to do so because the "rewards" aren't commensurate with the price increase. One way to capture this money then, would be a one day only sale of all Lord level accounts and above. Portalarium would have to run the numbers to see if the roi on such a sale would be worth it, but from reading this forum I definitely feel that it would be. Plus, a one day sale at that level focuses primarily on those with an interest in upgrading, without cannibalizing the product as a whole.

    Again, this is all opinion and speculation. I am sure Portalarium has done their own market research and SWOT analysis on this stuff already! :D[/quote]


    Personally, I think this is a very bad idea :( I originally started out as a Patron during the Kickstarter, then later upgraded to Lord, and finally Lord Marshal. I am currently on a payment plan to upgrade to Baron 3. Sure, it is a huge jump in money, but I believe in supporting this game o_O The additional rewards at the Baron 3 level seem sufficient to me :) Having a one day sale may help the developers generate some quick cash, but it would definitely hurt them in the long run...:eek:
     
  8. Cordelayne

    Cordelayne Bug Hunter

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    Personally, I think this is a very bad idea :( I originally started out as a Patron during the Kickstarter, then later upgraded to Lord, and finally Lord Marshal. I am currently on a payment plan to upgrade to Baron 3. Sure, it is a huge jump in money, but I believe in supporting this game o_O The additional rewards at the Baron 3 level seem sufficient to me :) Having a one day sale may help the developers generate some quick cash, but it would definitely hurt them in the long run...:eek:[/quote]


    I followed the exact same path Gabriel so we are in the same boat, except I am probably not upgrading to Baron 3. :)

    I respect your opinion, but am curious to ascertain why? Why do you think it's a bad idea? Am I not supporting the game through my various pledges (currently Lord Marshall)? I believe I am. It's because I support the game that I floated the idea of capturing a segment of the "market" (the market in this example being the SoTA pre-alpha pledge market lol ;)) that is currently being under utilized. The initial focus being based solely on the economic benefit of doing so.

    Moreover, if such a sale were to exist are those people who act on it then not supporting the game because they spent $480 instead of $800 (Knight to Lord)? I believe they are. Finally, how would it hurt Portalarium in the long run? I see no downside to them doing this, given that a similar precedent has already been set and the revenue being captured is targeted to long term players. Maybe you and others might stop playing, but even if you did Portalarium is keeping your money (no refunds remember). Maybe people will complain but that will always happen. Whether its my silly hypothetical idea or full pvp versus pve lol. Or maybe its just that I am too much of a capitalist and fully expect every corporation to leverage every financial opportunity available to them. This certainly is possible! :D

    At a minimum I thoroughly enjoy the debate/conversation with you and others (I got to dip back into my old career for a bit). How else can we learn from one another and expand our own thinking? I have my opinion, educate me on yours so I can understand where you're coming from. :)
     
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  9. Bodhbh Dearg

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    It might also cause current backers to sell their pledges on the marketplace because they feel betrayed. And who's to say the buyers will add anything more in funding after that? Now suddenly instead of a money influx you get a shift *outside* the company and a massive stagnation in funding and a lot of negative rep, reducing the image of the company, with associated financial backlash...

    I would *love* to go Duke (Baron holds near nothing for me!), but I would very much dislike such a move by Port, and above scenario could very well be my response, and that would automatically include my son's account, a total investment of a few 1000$!...


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk.
     
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  10. Cordelayne

    Cordelayne Bug Hunter

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    Thanks for the response, such a scenario could happen, but let's be honest it's unlikely. A shift of money to 3rd party re-sellers does not affect Portalarium's bottom line in any capacity. Whose to say that the buyers of those accounts will add more funding...well the numbers, obvi! ;) Sadly, I do not have those numbers, but we don't need them to prove my point. If you look in the marketplace forum you will see numerous examples of people willing to spend more money for certain types of accounts specifically Founder Accounts. If you sell your "normal" account for a reduced cost the only person impacted in that scenario sadly is the seller.

    I find it very intriguing that people would feel betrayed if Portalarium did this. No one has aptly been able to explain to me why? Isn't the end goal of this whole endeavor to be a part of something that we all love and see it come to fruition? Are we that banal in our thinking that we selfishly get angry at the thought of another player getting something for less? What sense does that make on the macro level of creating a better game for all? Maybe I just don't get it, but I would like to believe we are all capable of seeing the forest through the trees.
     
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  11. majoria70

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    @Cordelayne. Ok my thoughts on it is that It's not that 'everyone' would be upset, it's just that some would be. There is not a way around that. There are many other ways money can be brought into this game. So why is this the only approach? If that is the desired outcome why does it matter if it's another way? No one is saying we don't want all the money we can get to fund this game. Crowdsourcing is not the choice I would have made for this game because of financial limitations to provide every single thing I want to see in this game. I so often dream of that one in a million financial backer wanting to donate tons of money to this game. Then we are told hey ok we can add everything you want, well except some want different things, but that's another story, not part of my dream ;) Of course so far that has not happened. I don't have the answers, and I also don't see anyone changing their thoughts and shouting for joy at this idea.:)
     
  12. Cordelayne

    Cordelayne Bug Hunter

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    Absolutely 100% agree with everything you said Majoria (like always lol ;)). I fully appreciate that my idea isn't the panacea of all revenue generation, lol! Certainly there are other (probably even better) ideas out there. I was merely trying to elucidate my point and garner greater clarification as to others. Needless to say, your point is duly taken. Despite my lengthy (ahem - long winded) analysis and interpretation there certainly isn't anyone shouting for joy over it. :D
     
  13. Gabriel Nightshadow

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    Clearly you have not seen the angry posts which occurred when changes in pricing have occurred in the past (i.e., like when the original pledge grace period ended...) o_O It is human nature for people to envy those who receive the same benefit at a lower cost :rolleyes: Furthermore, from an economic point of view, you are cannibalizing long-term sales for short-term gain. (Why would anybody want to pay full price when they can wait until the next one-day sale to occur?)
     
  14. Cordelayne

    Cordelayne Bug Hunter

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    I have not, you are right, but I am clearly bearing witness to them now lol! ;)

    It is human nature, I completely agree with you, but does that make it the appropriate response? Aren't we all disciples of the Eight Virtues? ;) That of course is a more philosophical question than economic. :p

    You are only cannibalizing long-term sales if those consumers would increase their pledge level in the future at full price. Clearly, Portalarium has the demographics of which accounts have remained static, for how long and at what pledge level, right? So if you saw within the Knight segment that there were say, 1,000 people who haven't increased their pledge for over a year or more; one could surmise that the chances of them increasing their pledge level without some kind of incentive is unlikely. Therefore, the possibility of cannibalizing those potential sales is low. In this same vein, you then can deduce that there is still revenue to be generated from that segment within the market. How to capture it is a whole other question. Clearly my idea was not a well received one, lol! :D

    The reality is, there will always be some cannibalization of a product within a market, the key is identifying how to minimize it. Great example of this is another Harvard Case Study focusing on Gillette and their release of the "Fusion Pro-glide".
     
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  15. Caliya

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    I agree it can be upsetting to those who have invested, if others are given the same thing for less money. I understand the upset too.

    If they were to reduce the price of my tier, to bring more backers, in order to finish the game sooner and/or with more features, I'd personally welcome it. I don't care. Let's get the game out of pre-alpha. The only way to do that is to bring in more funding and man hours.

    I can understand both sides of the argument. I just think if people want a game, they have the things they pledged - those won't go away - so if they paid a bit more? Maybe give them an additional bonus for being an older founder. Oh wait. They already did that. ;)
     
  16. Caliya

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    @Cordelayne - don't take the negative comments too personally. Lots of folks here have staked a claim and want it to hold its value. Some for obvious reasons, others for personal gain.

    I just want the game to get out of pre-alpha already.
     
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  17. Cordelayne

    Cordelayne Bug Hunter

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    Thanks for the nice note Caliya. :)

    Luckily, I have a thick skin and folk's responses weren't disrespectful in any capacity. We all love SoTA and are passionate about the game. These are all great things! :D
     
  18. Fionwyn Wyldemane

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    I am at the Duke level, but that is after several pledge upgrades.

    I paid benefactor price for my pledge. It's a pretty good chunk of change. If there was a one-day sale where friends and strangers alike who can't afford more of a pledge were now able to, I would be HAPPY. Perhaps I'm crazy? I got what I paid for and it was a thrill! The fact that someone might pay less is of no consequence. All I care about is supporting this game and supporting the community. And if those people who might buy on sale pay a few dollars less to be thrilled, good for them! We need thrilled people to keep spreading the word and bring in others to pledge.

    My bottom line is this - Richard Garriott is one of my two gaming heroes. (Raph Koster of SWG fame being the other.) I support the game because I support the vision of my hero and his team. If I cannot trust them to deliver the kind of game I have been fantasizing about for 18+ years, then it's the end of the world (gaming wise) and there are no heroes left. So my pledge is a show of faith with my name signed on the dotted line. That I get some really wonderful *phat virtual lewt* is secondary. That others may someday get it cheaper is not on my radar. Their ability to upgrade at less would not cheapen my pledge in any way.

    But this whole conversation is conjecture and speculation isn't it? A *what if* scenario? Agree or disagree on the merits of having a pledge sale, but perhaps we can all agree on two things that are *not* speculation - SoTA ROCKS and being here at any pledge level is a thrill! To which I say +10 to all stats...lol. :)

    Peace!

    Fionwyn Wyldemane
    Pax et Veritas
     
  19. Oakwind

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    I would pay 100.oo dollors for Historical 15th century armor sets and weapons plus dyes. Valorite,copper,ect................
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] Knights close helm [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  20. Duke Olahorand

    Duke Olahorand Localization Team

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    Keeping the value of already paid pledges up is a core element for Portalarium - since it is a matter of trust. Trust is a resource hard to regain once lost. In my opinion it was already a very critical decision in the matter of trust to not honor the reduced price for a pledge at founder pricing, if the pledge owner afterwards wanted to jump up to a higher pledge level.

    My pledge path went from Knight at Kickstarter via Lord to Baron 3 and finally to Duke. LoM would be nice to have, but the gap is too harsh to jump over.

    *Salute*
    Olahorand
     
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