Only one character slot? (Please answer poll)

@Bowen Bloodgood

Once again you show that 'context' is a concept that escapes you.

From your quote, the concept was that the dev team would change if enough of us said they wanted it different. The poll, in that case, is something usable as the audience they're listening to is forum goers. That's who they want to hear from, those most invested in the project. In that light, your argument that it was clear which way had support, didn't hold up, then or now as it's nearly a coin flip. That doesn't mean I think popular vote should make the call, even though at the time, my side still (and continues to) hold the edge. Which is why the sentence ' If that's the coin flip it comes down to...' starts out with 'If'.

Asgaurd, however, took a different view of the poll. Not as one of a few forum goers invested in the project, and applied it to everyone. The poll simply doesn't work in that regard. See reasons above.

Bringing it back on point of the topic, setting up a proper context can change the meaning of how people interact with the same product. Either the poll or the game. Multiple character slots changes the context. So, I should thank you in giving me such a great example of exactly how something seemingly so unrelated can change an audiences reaction to the entire game.

 

In Richard Garriot's talk with Chris Roberts, they speak together about Kickstarter, and bouncing ideas off of their funders:



Both make it quite clear that the point isn't to see which idea is favored or more popular within the community, not even who gives the better argument. But the discussions help them look at the idea from various angles and make their own decison.

Chris makes a point that he'll often pick the less popular choice.

Just wanted to remind everyone that the results of this poll, though an interesting visual, would have no power to sway the development team's decision on the topic. We don't even know all the details of the story and gameplay, things that might help to formulate reasons behind the decision. So yes, I think it's interesting to see our opinions on what we prefer, and the discussions may shed light on new and different reasons to pick one versus the other, but in the end, we probably all should be prepared to play the game either way, trusting that the development team is making the decision based on the game they want to create.

 

I only quote you and say "hmmm" and this is what you come up with? Once again you're reading between the lines. That was your quote I used you know and I didn't say a darn thing about it. I never relied on the pole to make a case and yet you were using it to support yours. I also never focused on who "had more support". Please pay attention as to who is making what arguments.

That's a LOT of meaning for a single non-word. Now you were just going on and on making a huge case about how the pole didn't matter.

 

The vast majority of SotA backers aren't even on these forums. We here put the hard in hardcore, true fanboys the lot of us. I suspect if given an email poll to all the KS backers we'd get back vastly different results.

Single or Multiple character slots is a major game mechanic on par with selecting FPS vs 3rd Person. Online RPGs are significantly less playable if you take away our ability to experiment and try to roleplay and adventure as different personas.

Oh SotA isn't an online RPG? Great then you shouldn't care if we are allowed to create multiple online characters.
It will enable min/maxing? So what. People who will do that are online PvPers (for the most part) and will do that no matter way. This upsets you? Don't play with them

The vast majority of the issues people have right now w/ SotA can be solved by just not playing that part of the game or with those kind of people - a system which will be built into SotA by default.

If anyone wants to find great reasons why to keep multiple character slots just look at any of my write ups earlier in the thread and those of RPers from the first several pages. I may rewrite them soon but currently there is enough supporters of multiple slots to give the Freeman Fan Club a run for their money.


@Asguard
It doesn't even matter if he ignores you. He will ignore anything you say regardless of merit by either not replying (when it is beneficial to him), breaking down your argument sentence by sentence with a paragraph long analysis of why his way is best (when it is beneficial to him) or just reiterate his point about immersion/accountability/old school rpg/decisions/typing out sentences etc even if it doesn't actually address people's wishes (when it is beneficial to him).

Focus on writing meaningful reasons as to why multiple character slots provide a deeper, more varied and prolonged gaming experience to sway the people who either don't care or don't know.

 

I'd like to add that at this point it is kinda hard to say for certain if even with the skill system they have in mind it won't be just better to create a new character if you want diversity.

For instance, there might be a spike in difficulty to gain skills beyond your first several, as in diminishing returns. The first 7 skills are easy to gain and each next one is harder and harder (this can manifest in many ways, from actually taking longer to get points in a skill or having to use more skill points to raise a skill, or even it taking much longer to gain levels to get those points to begin with).

If that system is in this game in any way, it would mean that if I want a crafter and a mage, it would be easier to build one of each than train all the required skills on a single character.



Another big reason people are leaving out is if you want to maintain two seperate playstyles. I want to PK and steal but also be the honest blacksmith in town who provides duties for everyone. Making that the same character creates serious difficulties in RP potential as well as player trust. Me wanting to PK and steal does not make me a bad person, I just find that type of game fun; and that doesn't mean that it is the only type of gaming I find fun.

 

Have to agree with you, postulio. We have nearly 50/50 in the poll. But we don't know, how it seems with peoples not in SOTA or who aren't fans. Most online games have more as one char slot. Breaking it down to only one char slot could cause problems by the causal players. And it should indeed try to please so many players how possible and use the least disconfort. If the game only please the minor core, then the money they will earn will be most likely aswell only the minor core of the money they could made. And this would again lead to smaller updates.

 

That formula seems contrary to what RG has said about skills. To paraphrase.. if you spend 2 weeks on a sword skill you have 2 weeks worth of sword skill.. if you then decide you want to try magic and spend 1 week training magic then you have 1 weeks worth of magic skill and 2 weeks worth of sword skill. This highly suggests a linear progression.

 

I hadn't read this before, thanks. I wish there was a resource for getting info like this about the game (as I understand it many of these tidbits get dropped in videos or chat).

This system would in fact alleviate the need for multiple characters due to skill variety.

 

It MIGHT be in one of Dame Lori's chat summaries.. I'm normally able to keep up with all the chats so I haven't read them. I believe it came up either late in the KS or early-mid April.

 

A) You did say hmmm.

B) The placement, now your follow up statements show that my reading of what you were implying is correct. You were trying to contrast the two points of things I said as being incompatible with each other. Now if you want to take that as a personal conversation, or a communal clarification is up to you. But once you said dragged that out it needed to be addressed because the context you framed it in isn't correct. If there's something wrong in there, please, tell me what you meant. I'll be in this corner holding my breath.

And there's one of the differences between you and me. When someone does that to me, I don't go "Ha Ha. You didn't read my mind... guess you'll have to try again." I say "No. You're wrong. I was thinking this..." You spend a lot of time saying what you didn't say. Care to tell us what you DID say? What you meant by it, and what you hoped to accomplish? Because at this point, it's starting to look less like a debate, and more like trolling or personal attacks. So that there's no miscommunication, which is it? Some incomplete thought you want to share after all? Or just a personal dig?

As maybe, but I didn't say that you did either. I was referring to the fact that you keep focusing on that they're willing to change their mind based on what we tell them. Of the reasons to change is either good reason or popular opinion. So in that context of trying to address every reason they'd want to change, I included that. Specifically that even the popular opinion of the people they're listening to isn't backing up your narrative.

No, I made a case about how it doesn't apply to the player base at large. And it doesn't. If it wasn't for dev posts, and that I pledged at that level to get the assets and such, I wouldn't be in this forum at all. Most old schoolers wouldn't. A lot of people who just want to play with a tight group of friends and family, or solo, aren't going to be in here, and they're a fairly large portion of the player base.

So, seriously, I'm trying not to engage you, but if you're going to post about me directly I'm kinda forced to get in here. This is kinda like my swing at postulio. If you want to debate the points of what I said, if you want to try and change my mind with something, or make a new case, I'm more than happy to do that. But, as someone once said to me: you're not helping your cause when you post like that.

 

If you were refering to something earlier you didn't make it very clear.

I make every effort to say what I mean and mean precisely what I say.. preciesly to avoid misunderstandings.. but if someone is frequently interpreting rather than listening then yes.. I have to go back and explain it until they get it. If you can't tell what is.. and isn't said then maybe you should go back and reread. I also wouldn't be so quick about the personal digs if I were you. I admit I'm tempted to take a shot here or there when it feels like someone is being a pill and if any of those are out of line I apologize.. but you take a few of those jabs yourself whether you realize it or not.

At this point I see no value in going back and forth but if you go about telling me I said something I didn't whether your read too much into it or just misread I will correct you... probably.. if I feel I have the energy for it.

 

To quote Doctor Phil; "How's that working out for you?"

This is the internet, there's a zillion ways to misunderstand/miscommunicate an idea that are no fault to the listener, no matter how many times they read what you say. It's the nature of the beast, but instead of jumping on someones crap for not being perfect, at least realize that if they have a different understanding, it's just that. A different understanding.

You keep saying you see no point in going back and forth, but when I'm dealing with someone else you don't miss an opportunity to pick at what I've said. When it suits you. Like most of our conversation, you tend to focus on cherry picking info and either ignoring or forgetting the rest. I don't mind, but I've stopped believing you'll do stop. So yes, at this point you've already said you're not trying to change my mind, which means what you're doing when you direct something at me isn't a debate, it's a dig, attack, whatever. Knowing that, I'm going to give the occasional jab myself. You've said in so many words this is a fight now, what would you like me to do different?

 

Don't take it personally, @Freeman. It's his way when he feels he's getting the worse part of the argument. Don't I know?
https://shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?threads/prison-system.2810/page-2#post-39135

Discuss things with people who want to discuss things, not with people who just accuse you of negativity when you point out legitimate flaws.

 

Guys and gals, please remember that when a conversation devolves into bickering, "let me counter everything you said in a quote rebuttal because I'm right and your wrong", it isn't helping anyone make a great game and certainly doesn't act as a foundation for building a great community. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but you are discussing a feature that has not even reached an alpha stage yet. Give it time before you get yourself into a lather about how this will play out. We may find in Alpha that what we thought would be fun, won't be, or ~you~ may find that it was in fact, a good decision. We won't know until we get some play-testing in. So until then, agree to disagree and move on.

 

No amount of play testing is necessary in order to recognize that more than a single character is needed if you want to get the most out of your game, specifically, if you wish to Roleplay several distinct personas with strangers online.

However, you make a great point, especially about the bickering and line by line dissection.

 

I really dont understand it. Why force people to have one character slot? Those that want multiple can have multiple; those that want to portray their beleifs unto a single character can do so. I dont see what all the huff-puff of "It has to be this way or that way" is about. When it comes down to it, if you choose the latter, you still have a choice in the matter.

 

Then you didn't read anything prior to this page, as many reasons were given. When you have extra slots, you aren't bound to your decesions. You're free to be as anti-social as you wish, and then able to go and hide on your alt when things get tough.(Don't tell me it won't happen, as a few have stated that's their intent, to be a jerk, then hide when it's not working out for them.) It's about living with your actions, and not crying, "...waahhhh.. no one likes me..but I did it out of roleplay..." Kinda like having a level playing field. At this point I don't care either, I'd rather have the ignore list on this site tied into the game to avoid the trolls, and children who can't do anything but throw tantrums and call names.

 

I'm going to reiterate what FireLotus stated. We need to have respectable and mature conversation on this topic as well as other topics where there is a lot of division on opinions. We as a community cannot continue to bicker at each other or become aggressive or even subtly insulting each other over differences in opinion because we want this community to continue to grow in a positive direction.

If any of you are feeling the need to reply or add to the conversation any further, please take a few minutes to make sure you're in the correct mindset before you start typing so that things aren't spoken in anger, insult or sarcasm. At the end of the day, keep in mind this is just a game. It's not something that any of us should get bent out of shape or loose sleep over. We're all part of this community to have a fun and enjoyable experience, so let's continue to work towards that.

 

My take on this matter is clear - no multiple characters on single account - I do not want people utilizing alts to circumvent meaningful game mechanics. (this is intended for the I want to role play "evil" crowd not the legitimate role playing community - take this statement as you wish folks)

 

Some ideas i got in another thread, but i post them here, to avoid the other thread becoming a battlefield aswell.

Dragon Prophet set a delete countdown for the characters, when you have used them inworld already from about 1 day. Something similar is by Eve online (Ok, not best example). But if you only have 2 or 3 accounts. Then the game could start a countdown, that you can't simple delete an griefer character and make a new one. Ok, without taking time for leveling the char would stay weak and so not much of a threat for other chars.

As additional point could be the somewhere mentioned prison or prison island to take a char out of the race for some time, until he gets released or can flee (what shoudn't be easy).