Organizing the first player-run city with a crafting and trading theme

Mapping software
http://www.thecaverns.net/Wordpress/making-maps-player-towns-quality-easy/

 

Finally got around to watching the player-run towns hangout.

It's awesome that we will have banks. That makes player-run towns much more useful and valuable. Without them trade would be far more difficult.

For now I'm happy to draw out my maps in paint or by hand.

Do you know if there are there also demo versions of the above programs?

 

Not really a usable demo unfortunately. You can look at their galleries, they have some tutorials, etc. Between the combination you get a good feel for things. Its on my "want badly list" and if at some point I manage to acquire it I may do maps for people BUT I can't make promises. It could be time consuming!

I also want to make scaled floor plans of all the in game houses with it. Probably using their "Perspectives" add-in (combine with other stuff). Not sure how well I could pull off an exact scaling though.. I can see a lot of potential uses for these.

My thing is though, unless I can pick up their entire library I don't want to mess with it. Having heavily used their 2nd version i know how often you fall into "I wish i had this add-in to do this.." or "I really need this graphic from this pack..".

Ultimately though while I enjoy using their software and creating with it, Im not sure how much time for such I could find *laughs*. I have all the 2.0 version stuff but its horribly unstable these days and the graphics are verrry outdated.

Another software program that is good is http://www.dundjinni.com/
It DOES have a demo version you can try out. Their graphics are better then Campaign cartographer. Overall though I don't feel their software can do as much or is as powerful but because of that its a bit easier to use - a bit more streamlined.

 

All sounds pretty cool. I'm struggling for free time. So many things I hope to do in my free time but never quite get there. Currently thinking about how to create a new a forum for my guild website and link it to the main site....

 

Update on current thinking. Some help required....

Website / Forum
Currently I'm keen to use the website I built for my guild. This can be changed easily in the future but I'm keen to keep things simple / cheap until we have a more definite picture. That said I'm keen to take discussion to a more private place.

At my current website I'm using Wordpress but I do have full access to cpanel / Softaculous to install whatever apps we need. I'm wondering if anyone has experience with linking Wordpress to forums (e.g. phpBB). The forums offered by WP (bbPress) are too simplistic and not able to offer what we need. I did some Googling and it looks like it should be possible to install a bridge between WP and the forums. This should allow for a single log in (desired).

Anyone with experience of this and able to make recommendations? I'm installed forums before so that isn't a problem but I'd like to have them linked to WP (which I'm using as a CMS).


Funding
There is a roughly even split on using KS and add-on store gifting. I think we can run with both. There will be a KS style initial funding round where additional perks can be offered. This would be available through both the add-on store and KS. It is likely then I may need to coordinate with Port on this.

Not expecting the community to fully fund this. I'm hoping that I only have to cover half of the cost at most. If we raise enough money for 10 metropoluses (?) then we will build them. People *could* start donating now but I'd rather the fund raising was more focused and done (mostly) within a given time period.

Some thoughts on gifts (these are ideas):
* Any new pledge to SOTA at Ancestor above and who use my account ID for a referral would be eligible for a free row lot key (or equivalent value).
* Any pledge during the limited period offer at $40 or more would be entered into a prize draw to win an Ancestor account (or equivalent value).
* Community members who have contributed art / music to the game (which has been accepted by the devs and appears in the game) will be eligible for a discount of 25% on lot keys. Would need to check this with Port.
* Members of the Poets Circle will be eligible for a discount (suggesting) 15%. This is not cumulative with the above. Probably need a way to vet legitimate members.
* Players who join my guild would be eligible for a 25% discount. Considering 35% for officers. To prevent against fraud I'd need to get a good qualitative feel for the applicant. I could revoke lot access, but I'd rather prevent a problem than cure it.

Property Rights

I'm keen to allow citizens the right to have a property and to sell it to whomever they like. The property (key) is theirs to do as they please.

If someone has a key but causes trouble then they can be (temporarily) evicted. They won't necessarily lose the right to own the lot, but rather lose the right to live there. I am suggesting this as a method of easing the fear that people could lose money. Ultimately it is all based on trust but I figure that by offering the right of lot ownership even after eviction may help to put fears to rest. If someone is evicted then they can re-apply to live in the town (with their key) and if they are deemed to be fit to return then they can do so. Otherwise they have the option to sell their key. In extreme circumstances ownership rights could be revoked too.

 

More on funding:


I'm providing some seed capital. Purchased a crossroads town for $2000. I'm hoping that this will encourage others to buy into the town and it will also get the ball rolling with the devs. It ought to put the town in a reasonable place on the list as more towns are bought. I'm pushing for this to be a metropolis. I don't think we need to fill the town on day 1. We will have room to grow.


Backers:

What questions do you want answered?
How much more information do you need?
Would you prefer KS or add-on store gifting?



Short list of interest parties (no obligation)
@Burnden Park
@Kadumel
@Enderandrew
@Brian
@Lord Gorynych
@Lord Lorimus
@blaquerogue
@aevans
@Sinuage
@Azufel
@Resurrected

 

Is a grasslands biome still the current thinking?
Does that imply a relatively flat landscape?


The Player Owned Towns info all list a 'Central Square with X NPC owned buildings', which seems to imply their templates will have one section for the central square. The designs in the second post all seem to split the central square into several different sections. Is the plan to try and create separate central squares, if allowed, or fit all of the NPC buildings into one location?


As far as town layout, I suggest starting at the Metropolis size and peeling away lots at the outer edges to get down to the number of lots for whatever final size town is selected. That way you already have the designs and plans to upgrade from the lower sizes without having to remodel everything.

 

I can starting doing some basic LEGO renderings of a town layout based on what I did here https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?threads/lot-size-comparisons.11517/

I need an overhead view to work from, and possibly elevation data if it isn't mostly flat. And yes I can add basic buildings to that so it isn't just flat or top-down.

Is there a currently preferred design already included in this thread that is likely to be selected for moving forward? Or do people want to discuss layouts more?

 

My thinking is a grasslands with a coastline. Hoping for a feel like Venice. That does imply a flat map but there is probably enough space for some bumps! I am not super strict on this being flat, just current thinking. If you come up with something cool that fits then we can include it.

I would prefer not to have the npc buildings forced in to one location. I don't know if what I am proposing is possible. Feedback from the community is that splitting up the npc buildings is a good idea.

Your suggestion of starting with a metropolis and peeling back lots is a good idea.

 

Lego renderings would be awesome.

The design I like most is number 2. Kadumel did a nice design in the 2nd or 3rd page. That said these designs are not final and open to more discussion. If you can take my suggested town style in the early posts but add your own flavour that would be cool. Come up with something and throw it out for feedback.

 

So Owl's Head already has 2 separate town squares, so I'll just go with that instead of 1 large central square.

I suggest blocking off an area large enough for 4-6 NPC buildings. The Crossroads Village comes with 4, the Town with 6. The City has 10, so that's two areas of 4-6. The Metropolis comes with 15, so that is three areas.

For a crafting and trade focused town, what buildings or services would people expect in a given area (of 4-6 NPC buildings)?

 

There is two approaches here. One is to think of these town squares are modular cores. Where we possibly decide upon 75% of the buildings in the module being common across all such town squares with the remaining quarter being bespoke to the needs of that town region. E.g. a crafting pavilion and a bank may be common across all.

The other method is of course to consider them all individually and make them all quite different. If we can place npc buildings wherever we want then we could place a bank in he middle of a residential area rather than on the town square (just a thought).

Of the necessary buildings I'd aim for:
Crafting pavilion (if possible?)
Bank
General store
Inn

Hard to know until we have a complete list. Plus I'm keen to encourage the citizens to run their own crafting parlours and their own vendors.

 

I bet 40 quatloos on the newcomer !!!

 

Folks, many thanks for the messages and notes of interest. As mentioned above I have invested some seed funds into this town. Currently we are at $2k (crossroads village) and aiming for $5k (metropolis) by launch. This is an easy target. Many of you have offered to donate to the town already which is great.

Adding up the amount of funds offered with a definite figure our total funding sits at $4.5k. Those of you who haven't given a concrete figure but indicated say "a village lot" then I think we'd be very close to $5k (if not higher). If we were within $500 then I'd happily top up to $5k no hesitation there.

I'm happy to start collecting donations now. I will send my email address via PM to those who are interested.

If we go over $5k then we have a couple of options:

1) I sell some of my stake. This decreases the number of keys I own.
2) we purchase a sister town that we can use as an outpost somewhere else.
3) purchase a pledge and use that to grant a tax free lot for town purposes (e.g. a town hall, although I suspect there will be an NPC town hall. We'd have options here.)
4) purchase add-on store items. Perhaps a basement for the town hall. We could purchase lots for town use too, but I fear there won't be good value for money here. We'd possibly be better off buying lots in-game (these lots and the add-on store lots incur a tax anyway).

Pricing
Row - $10
Village - $40
Town - $80
City - $160

Anyone who donates more than $200 then I'd be willing to sell at the lots at a discounted rate (~ 10%). PM me and we can work something out. For bulks buys I ask you to understand that I don't want players to buy a huge block in one area then leave them dormant. The spice players / cash must flow.

Lots that have a door which opens on to a town square will be sold at a premium (+$15). These lots will be very limited and have a huge economic advantage. They will also sell at a premium once the game is launched. I'm not keen to sell all of these lots to a single player either! You can request one or two such lots but I'm not keen to offer out more. As you will need my email address in order to donate then I will need a note of intentions before you donate. I will keep track of lot sizes so nothing will be oversold.

Row - $25
Village - $55
Town - $95
City $175

Note that: Water lots will be +$5.

I'd feel happier "selling" the lots than just accepting pure gifts, but folks are welcome to donate funds if they desire.

Questions welcome. PM me if you'd prefer that.

All of this is subject to approval from the devs. They have the final say on all matters.

 

I especially like point #2, sister cities. There is such enormous potential with that.

 

Dear Jatvardur,

While I do not wish to reside specifically within your town, I am now following your project with great interest as I am trying to do the same thing, albeit on a much-reduced scale. I am hoping to specialise in crafting and would ask trustworthy players of shared interest to guard me in dangerous areas as I collect resources (perhaps with pack animal in tow).

Under such circumstances I would like to have a means (an in-game contract?) to request aid on an as-needed basis. Would this kind of arrangement be something you and your Council would be amenable to? I would hope to compensate your people with either a portion of the raw materials gathered or a finished product made using said materials, to be delivered at a later date. I suppose I am thinking of the Dwarven relationship with the Elves from the Second Age of Middle Earth.

 

This is something that I'd want to help facilitate. Either in-game over on a forum. I'm sure that if there is demand to protect a gatherer then there will be a supply of protectors willing to work for money. The more often opportunities like these come up then the more often people will respond. I think it is one of these things which can become self-perpetuating in a game.

It is worth thinking about how best to achieve this. I've been working on getting a new set of forums created at my guild website and I could open a section there for people to post contracts.

 

That all sounds excellent, and I do enjoy the notion of online forums playing their role. However, I was hoping for more of an in-game communication method or an appointed time, perhaps with the in-game town message boards. As laughable as some may find this reference, not unlike those of Nintendo's 'Animal Crossing' series, where appointments can be arranged by simple bulletin notices posted for all to see.

 

I hear you. If we can figure out a good way to do this in-game that would be good too. There is the old-fashioned way of spamming the chat channels. I don't know if we will get a message board. One possible solution is to use the pieces of paper that the game will have. I think we will be able to write upon them and perhaps have them collected somewhere. That would work too.

Perhaps a particular table could be use to collect contracts of work that people want done.

 

I'd reserve the following lots facing townsquare.

2 Row - $25
1 Village - $55
1 Town - $95

Town lot is for me and village/row are for my family members.