Overland Map Changes

So ... Paper Map or 3D Map. Have to say I'm trying to give the developers the benefit of the doubt here in that they are looking long term to what they are envisioning and we just don't see it yet. R4 didn't go over well because it was rushed in at the last second. R5 focused on Combat. R6 Skills? In the end there may be no time to change it back if it doesn't pan out. I'm hoping that for R6 the development team gets the chance to work on this and let's everyone see exactly what they wanted all along.

Or maybe it's all a 'Red Herring' and they already have a great system built but they are using this to keep us focused on something that's not really an issue while they madly scramble in the background to fix a much larger problem that no one has noticed yet. <-- Conspiracy Theory, free of charge.

Honestly though, if this is just to save time while other things are worked on, I'd rather delay the release and have everything done properly. (Of course I'm not paying the bills so that's easy for me to say.) If it is because the powers that be envision greater things down the road using this paper map method, then I, and from the looks of things many other people, would love to see a bit of what's in store.

In the end, this will affect game play for a lot of people and is a serious topic but I'm not sure it is worth all of the hype that it seems to have received since R4. Things will be what they will be, we just need to wait and see what happens. Repeating the same arguments 1000 times won't change it but 1000 people arguing once one way or the other might.

 

Actually they both have an hexes system, but they doesnt taste the same.

 

The changes to the map are definitely improvements..but I'm still not a fan. It's bearable at best. It's still not immersive or consistent with the rest of the game..and probably never will be.

I did like the zoom out feature. The map is a bit more tolerable when zoomed all the way out. It was aggravating, however, that it reverted back to the default view whenever I re-entered the map. Hopefully they'll get it to remember our custom view selection in a future release.

 

If I'm walking along the hex that includes a road and I see something in the distance I cannot travel to it, simply observe it. In this, there is no exploration and just a way of funnelling people into points of interest.

Will leaving and entering the same hex give me a different scene? There is little to no continuity between them.

I've seen it said that to create a seamless world it would be cost prohibitive, so are we left to endure a world that feels large on paper but is just a series of repeated scenes? Will the hexes I visit on the main continent be the ones from the Vale simply reused?

 

I don't usually post on forums, but I needed to chime in here.

Very disappointed they continue to work on the cloth map style opposed to the beautiful 3D overhead. To me, it's wasted time.
I am also surprised that there are even a few vocal believers in this new direction. Perhaps the rest of us can gently persuade you to the truth ;-)

When I first saw the promotional video, about a year ago, I didn't really like the idea of being jolted out of the world to an overland view.
But the 3D map was so beautiful, I thought I could tolerate it. Now with this unrealistic version , I strongly suspect this will end my interest in the game.

The paper map style would be better suited for a pull out map purchased from an in-game cartographer and further enhanced by purchasing a magic map spell to reveal the animations.
But the actual removal of your character from the game world scenes, needs to be IMO, a subtle change, such as slowly zooming out to reveal a less detailed 3D world.

Being a huge fan of the Ultima series, I really do want SotA to succeed.
However, if I saw this game's map in a screenshot within a PC gaming preview, I would not be interested in the slightest. I fear, I am not alone.

There's still plenty of time to right the ship, and I love much of the work done so far. I understand there may be difficulties in making the original 3D map a reality, but that's why we're here.
All difficulties can be overcome with time - and if delays are the solution to making this game great, I believe there's not a Pledger here who wouldn't want the game to be the best it can be.

 

indeed it does.

 

Your truth and my truth aren't the same thing.

 

Ok then. I won't be speechless. I just find it hard to believe anybody would base a game decision on an overland map view. I guess people are different, but I just don't know what to say about that.

Most of my game time is not going to be spent on the map, so it is not a big deal to me. However, I think the cloth map version is a quaint tie in to the cloth map that will come with the game.

Oh, and it's not that I don't think other people opinions don't matter. You are twisting the meaning of my post. The point is that I find it hard to believe you put so much weight in an overland map view.

 

We've already explained, in detail, our specific reasons.

 

Yeah, people are different. I would spend much time on the overland map and no time decorating a house in the game. So housing is something I do not get behind as you don't seem to get behind people wanting to roam around in a great, realistic, lush and detailed looking overworld view.

 

I think , believing that it was never the intention of the Portalarium team, they created a wrong expectation with the demo videos of the overland "placeholder"



To understand it , it is sometimes nice to look back into history and we find a comparable situation.

Wrong expectation about how Zelda Game would turn out.
SpaceWorld 2000 GameCube Tech Demo

The SpaceWorld 2000 Tech Demo showed Link and Ganondorf having a one-on-one sword fight in a dim castle hall. This video, along with others like Mario 128, was created to showcase the processing power and the graphics capabilities of the Nintendo GameCube. However, the demo was accused of generating false expectations, creating unwarranted criticism for the first GameCube Zelda game, The Wind Waker.[1] The demo gave the impression that it represented what the upcoming GameCube Zelda game would look like. So, when The Wind Waker was revealed to use cel-shaded graphics, many fans were dissapointed.[2] Several years later, at the end of the GameCube era, Twilight Princess, which had similar realistic graphics comparable to the ones of the tech demo, was released.

This was the demo SpaceWorld 2000 GameCube Tech Demo:



But this was how the actual game was:





Here is also a nice youtube video about this legendary false expectation created at a Tech DEMO with this Zelda demo:




To sum it up. We have to deal with it, that some of us had false expectations because of a demo about the overland world. But this does not mean that we can accept the reality, that in this case only little parts of it are not intended that way.

 

I do look forward to exploring great, realistic, lush and detailed scenes/instances.
For me, the map is a reference tool.

 

I understand the intention behind your post, but the reasoning and comparisons are flawed. Why? Because those games above you are commercial, producer-funded games.

This was a crowd funded game, and what we were shown is a large part of the reason they got the funding they did.

 

That's the issue. For many, the map is not simply a reference tool but a substitute for the lack of exploration that the current hex based system entails.

 

Thank you for coming out of the woodwork. Although forums can be ludicrous wastes of time and sanity, this one is actually pretty civil, and this is a critical time for opinions to be voiced and shared.

 

I do like the improvements to the cloth map look and feel and hope they can continue to improve upon it.

However, it will only ever be just a map in my opinion. Because of this, I would encourage that any development made on the cloth map be made so that it would be useful when we pull up a map to scroll around the world and see where towns are, roads, etc... I think it would still be useful in this map mode to view a flag representing me and flags representing my party members. When you change the perspective to a pure map functionality, I think this is where the cloth map structure can really shine. After all, what's more immersive then pulling up a cloth map in game and moving it around to see the world with the added benefit of getting some extra in game information there. And in a map mode, i would expect everything to look like... map markings! =)

If the above happens and the current overview because a strict map view, then that would allow the return of the 3D overview many people here (including myself) enjoyed. It may not be perfect or as refined as many other games, but at least it will give us the feel that we are walking around in the world in all its glory. I think this is the main rub that is affecting so many people. We want to explore the world in the overview and not just look at a map. I also want the ability to look at a map though, and the cloth map will be perfect for that.

So I guess, Portalarium, please keep the current map as a map (and map only!) and let the overview be setup for us to look and feel like we are exploring this new realm you are creating.

 

I like both versions of the map to be honest. I can see that with a lot of the suggestions so far it can be made to really work.

For instance:
Add day/night cycle to the map.
Add fog of war to areas outside view area.
Make limited visibility at night.
Don't have markers for areas the player has never been or that aren't widely known.
Weather.
Moving creatures on the map.
I am not against them reskining it back to the old way.

These are just a few.

Another thing the devscould do is look at adding the ability for players to designa hex...then they could add that hex into the map....as one of the areas instead of having a few basic maps they could literally have dozens. Of course they would have to rules to what they want in the hex so people don't go all crazy.

 

Because it wasn't an overland map view. If it was just a map and locations, no big deal. We were promised a dual-scale world, Every game I've played meant that half the adventure was exploring that world and having encounters in that world as well as a zoomed in world with encounters and exploration in there. This is simply, like you said, a Map. It isn't a dual-scale world.

 

I thought the overland map at KS was bad, it was what put me off pledging at the time if im honest.
There has been talk about various games and their maps and how they would love them to be SotA's. I think if you can afford to do something like the Civ map and the others that have been spoken off, then yes do it. But you either get a fantastic overland map or a bad one, no grey area. And i think the cost and time to achieve 'fantastic' is out of proportion to how much time would be spent there.

I quite liked the paper map in R4, and it definitely has had some love this release. I really like the cloth map, it is vibrant and alive with the new graphics, the colours are splendid and the animations give it some life, and im sure it can only get better and more varied. Its a good improvement imo from the KS demo.

My shield on wheels is a little disconcerting though, and would prefer an avatar, maybe with a flag? But i can see in say 6 months time we will all basically just be double clicking where we got to go and using it really just as a transport method and not as exploration.

 

I would like in the end every hex to be unique. But i was counting up on the island we are on and even if they managed one a day it will take a year im sure just to fill the small Lost Vale. So this is a great idea i like. Maybe a player on entering a hex could choose either the generic one or the user created one. The loot drops and such would all have to be balanced of course. But it is a great idea. Imagine the whole world with unique hexs. If you did one a day you probably would never complete them all as more lands get designed.