People wonder why I Hate Auto (and Free) attack so much . . . . .

moving around does make a difference lol i can take on mobs beyond my level gate simply by moving around, trying to get there flank and also forcing the ai to adjust, these mechanics have come along way and not only provide you with advantage but something funner than just standing there, this is not r11, standing in place now has to be done strategically, just like button mashing. i see the button mashers fail in pvp all the time, those of us practiced can spot them, let them run out of focus and then step in for the kill.

 

This may be true for PvP and proves one point: It is a system designed for an MMO with a PvP-focus. But what about the single player part? Are we stuck with a combat system that is not fun in SP and not even meant for SP?

 

You wasted something like 20-30 arrows taking down a bear with your "auto attack' demonstration.

That means that you wasted 60 gold worth of ammunition to take down a bear, and that was while using an elemental.

In free attack, I could have done it in three... No wonder you are always grumpy.

 

NO, it's only amplified in pvp and i apologise for bringing pvp into the conversation. I was just trying to show the detrements of standing there and button mashing regardless of pvp or pve sigh.

 

h yes the lamest example TY for letting everyone know how bad free attack is - another game mechanic that take skill gains and throws it down the toilet.

 

Ultima online, and many older generation games had auto attack as well. If anything this isnt a generational discussion, as it was in the latest generation that combat styles in RPG games have evolved to require the player to be more involved during combat.

Little effort for lot of gain does not fit in the discussion either. Since Grumpy just spent 2-3 dozen gold worth of ammunition to take down a bear, hes taking a loss heh.

He just wanted to shout from the rooftops that auto attack can make the game easy to play. And that is correct, it can. It has made the game easy to play in every other game that's ever had it too. This is why I use free attack. People wanted to have their choices for auto attack though, and they do - so we've lost that battle.

 

Yes, the fact an archer actually has to take aim and draw back his bow with a charge, and that in doing so this actually deals more damage? Those monsters, how could they ever conceive of this!

It is by intent that they are moving melee skills to try and utilize more of the free attack skills to keep melee players involved in the fight. Meanwhile Magery will eventually have much more focus on spellweaving since they would have more distance and time to look at what's going on in combat (and in their active deck).

Archers are a middle ground between the two. An archer can focus on the skills such as aim shot, or the air tree combinations, and deal a decent amount of damage doing that. We can also focus on free attack and charged attacks if we wanted, and focus it that way. It is a choice. You "proved your point" on a BEAR in the woods. Go try the same to the lich boss, or during a fight with a dragon - and see how far your autoattack gets you.

 

all or nothing, keep both or get rid of both.

i use auto attack, free attack doesnt feel right, i dont want to be conserned with such basics, i want to be concerned with when to use my coup de grace glyph on you!

 

no need to resort to name calling to make your point... and besides I'm NOT going to report every post like some do to me which explain my long pauses from this forum.

Don't do unto others what you don't like done unto you...

 

Renowed scholar with no ethics... what is that supposed to be ?!

How do people get these titles anyways, can I change mine to ?

 

So many comments about free attack verses auto attack. I like free attack for a warrior. I do think it is buggy and needs work. Why does it have to be one against the other? I could be wrong but I would say perhaps Chris had some ideas but they were lost in the auto attack must stay. I would like to know what they were. To be clear I know nothing, I have just wondered. Also I am not against auto attack, just curious.

 

......Was this a post regarding auto-attack vs free attack? I thought it was a discussion regarding skilled (glyph) attacks vs (free & auto) attacks?

On topic, it is kind of sad that simple holding "T" down can let me kill a coyote while the glyphs will run me out of focus and not even take the health down by half on a newbie toon. Just as bad when you use free attack and compare it to glyph attacks. Maybe there's a difference at higher levels but at my lowly level, I'm not feeling the love.

 

Skills / Spells need way more 'weight' to offset focus and auto attack

I barely live long enough to kill a wolf lol, so making fights longer would suck for a clothy

 

TY for being on topic and showing exactly what I was saying. And sadly there are still players that feel that auto attack and free attack are (shol) be so powerful. All my point is, is that all those two methods do is undermine skill gaining as I could have just worked up ONLY the first tier skill and some minor innates and be able to fight as well or better than a fully trained out player.

 

Just to be fair, you killed the bear using abilities 3 seconds faster than the one where you just auto-attacked, But I agree that it is hardly a factor as your DPS was only increased by ~15%.

Quick points:
- Defensive abilities are WAY too weak. Either unnecessary or make no difference defending on the fight. These need a bigger impact so fights can be harder and make us use them (no bird watching during a fight)
- Abilities that require a weapon should be "On Next Hit" and modify your actual auto/free attacks as bonus damage. I believe your weapon should matter and the attack speed, base damage and modifiers should play into the abilities you use with them. This would also allow you to charge you next-hit abilities with free attacks.
- If the above point is ignored, then weapons should incur global cooldown. You should not be able to swing your weapon and instantly also use an ability. Adding this would, if nothing else, highlight the issue to developers. The only reason to use abilities right now is that you can throw them in for free.

The balancing factor for free vs auto is charged attacks. These can be scaled to bring free attacks in line.

 

This discussion is out there, way out there... Why does everyone have to bring "conflict" into discussions... Us v Them is really pointless, always has been, always will be...

As long as "auto attack" can be turned OFF, what is the big problem here? So, you don't like "Free Attack" either, well state your case, how do you want it to work? Everyone has been debating and not saying anything important as to HOW it should work (don't give other games as examples, many of us don't play hundreds of games like you a'll do), so say exactly what you want, please...

I for one am having a blast with auto attack, its simple, and easy to use, free attack IMO actually sux...

 

I like the idea. Right now it feels clunky to cancel an autoattack for an ability, and incur a GCD. You really only get the net gain from (skill or spell) minus (avg auto hit)

Of course, like others have stated, then you aren't using your skills as much .. then they will be weaker and the gap remains


Skills do seem to scale from weapons already. My Sneak Attack does 10-30 with a Greatsword and 2-7 or something with Staff of Power... which means it's pretty well the same damage as a regular swing. (at L31) And interrupting your autoattack sequence seems to take time to 'settle back in' to the rate of attack

All of these factors give the appearance of a system balanced as the same DPS to auto or to actively stack and combo stuff, but .. I think it's a little more complex than that

 

He had Tera Direction in mind. I asume. Tera has no auto attack.

For me Tera Direction would have been the compromise for all our discussions

 

It's sort of weird that for the best damage you need to wait for your auto-attack to hit and instantly throw in an ability to minimize the GCD. If your weapon abilities happened when you swung your weapon, this min/maxing wouldn't be necessary.

On top of that, charging a weapon in free-attack mode would gain additional use. One possible example based on the first video would be activating Aimed Shot and charging up your bow to fire it off, using the naturally high damage of aimed shot, and amplifying it by charging it.

I like that there is some scaling to skills from weapons, but it seems odd that an ability can do less damage than the weapon's basic attack. It means that if you couldn't throw both out at once, the ability would be worthless. I would prefer it if the ability damage was added to the damage of a basic attack. Maybe for things like Quadruple Slash, the basic attack damage would be split, but the mechanic would be generally the same, added damage to what would have been a basic attack.

It would mean using Daggers with Thrust would be nice, low base damage, but lots of attacks to use it on due to the attack speed. But maybe Thrust could also scale well when charging your weapon in free-attack mode, still good for sneak attacks with daggers, but would allow you to include a few Thrusts in a Greatsword deck to amplify the end result.

Another idea on top of this could be making Focus recharge on auto-attacks. This wouldn't be as useful for mages (since they don't auto attack as much), but it would give you a reason to throw in normal auto attacks and give warriors and archers the possible option of taking reduced Focus tree skills, making that tree an actual choice. Focus gain per attack could be dependant on the weapon too.

 

Ya, kinda reminds me of 'clipping' for max dps currently. Having a skill integrate into the next swing cycle would fix a ton of this (great idea Fikule)

Staves auto consumes focus, and does almost no dmg, and the auto animation seems to clash with spell animations. Sometimes triggering a delay on cast

A channeled auto would be far better and perhaps easier to 'weave'

I'm also unsure if Sneak Attack gets damage from flank + from stealth, or if you need both req met

Obviously all the active skills should gain relevant passive bonuses too. I'm sure that's why melee auto with some cast buffs does great dmg