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Player Marketplace: Account Sales & Transfers Policy Enforcement

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by DarkStarr, Jul 18, 2018.

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  1. DarkStarr

    DarkStarr Executive Producer Moderator SOTA Developer

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    As you all know we have a very liberal policy related to Real Money Transactions (RMT) between players. We long ago decided that we could either fight these exchanges or embrace/tolerate them by creating a "safe" space for them to happen inside our forums and by creating our trusted trader program. Our decision to do this was based on the fact that these transactions would happen regardless of our enforcement. Enforcing them would only drive them to hidden places.

    For a long time now we have not been enforcing one of the key policies of our Player Marketplace. Please note however that policy has always been clearly stated in the description text above the Player Marketplace:

    "Account transfers are not supported. Items purchased in the SotA Store, such as Pledge and Bundle Rewards, Add-Ons, Stretch-Goal items, and Player Owned Towns, as well as services that can be immediately fulfilled in-game (such as renting existing in-game property or items) are the only permitted exchanges in the Player Marketplace."

    There are too many issues related to allowing Account Transfers that then result in poor customer experiences which then result in them contacting our support team who can almost never solve the associated issues. Here are just a few:
    • Steam Connection: accounts connected to steam cannot be disconnected from the parent steam account so if you purchase that Shroud account, unless you also buy the associated steam account, you cannot use it. Sellers will sometimes not disclose that the account is connected to Steam, or not even be aware this is an issue.
    • Fake / Unauthorized Steam Keys: There are lots of sites that sell fake and/or unauthorized steam keys which when players try to redeem after purchasing / associating we get contacted.
    • Attempts to Regain Access to Sold Accounts: We sometimes have attempts by players to regain access to accounts they have sold to other players claiming they never sold them.
    • Empty or Partially Empty Accounts: Players will sometimes empty an account of most/all the rare/valuable items right before the transfer making it worthless. We then get a support ticket about "missing" rewards.
    • Region Lock: There have been issues where customers from the regions supported by Black Sun have either sold accounts or purchased accounts in other regions and have been unable to use them.
    Because of the issues above (and many more) we are now going to start enforcing the policy (that has always been in place) and no longer allow account transfers in the Player Marketplace. If you wish to perform an account transfer you may contact one of our trusted traders and see if they would be willing to perform the transfer for you. Please note that we consider account sales the same as account transfers because you cannot sell an account without transferring it.

    One final note that you should NEVER share your password with anyone!
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2018
  2. Preachyr

    Preachyr Avatar

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    Are we still covered by support if we use a trusted trader and have an issue?
     
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  3. Elrond

    Elrond Avatar

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    Was about to suggest adding a character transfer token on store ...but i guess with all the difficulties posted its out of the question .
     
  4. Warrior B'Patrick

    Warrior B'Patrick Avatar

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    Greetings all. So I now assume if I have a problem with buying an account there will be no support from Port on recovering any of my money or "Lost" items. My question is if I do buy an account and all goes well with the trader but I want to change the name or move it to another account, things that are OK to do with accounts that I legally own, will I be able to get support with that?

    I also think that enforcing the rule about "Account transfers are not supported" is going to cause an uptick in illegal transactions because the person selling will know there is no resolution for a buyer that has been taken. So if you do buy accounts use a trusted trader and/or PayPal with protection.

    One last thing.... who protects the trusted trader? They hold the account until money changes hands and then turn over the account to the buyer. But if somethings goes wrong what is the Trusted Traders liability?
     
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  5. DarkStarr

    DarkStarr Executive Producer Moderator SOTA Developer

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    That is a matter for you to work out with the trusted trader and the trusted trader will contact us if needed.
     
  6. Jack SinAssist

    Jack SinAssist Avatar

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    Starr, can you explain the region locking? I was unaware that there was any such policy of region locking.
     
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  7. oplek

    oplek Avatar

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    It's never been the case that they cover or support. This note has been in the Trusted Trader section:

    (NOTE: While we have complete trust in the security of transactions with Portalarium Trusted Traders, Portalarium is not responsible or liable in any way, to either party, for those transactions)"
     
  8. oplek

    oplek Avatar

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    Keep in mind.. Portalarium isn't allowing RMT out of the kindness of their hearts. They're doing it because it's too costly to police.

    You're on your own with RMT. That's been the case. Maybe you can sue someone, if you feel like trying. These are not questions for Portalarium.
     
  9. Lazarus Long

    Lazarus Long Avatar

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    Well Account SALES are what seems to have people up in arms.

    Why were all Account SALES locked up and added to said list?

    I didn't see anyone on that list offering account TRANSFERS.

    Thanks

    Laz
     
  10. DarkStarr

    DarkStarr Executive Producer Moderator SOTA Developer

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    Account sales are transfers. You cannot have a sale without a transfer.
     
  11. DarkStarr

    DarkStarr Executive Producer Moderator SOTA Developer

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    If the game was purchased in a region supported by Black Sun (ex Russia) then it is not playable from the US.
     
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  12. Warrior B'Patrick

    Warrior B'Patrick Avatar

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    I just did a search for accounts for sale. I must admit that a lot of the accounts are being sold by users that have very few Messages, Likes, Or Trophy Points. Maybe this and the sell off of assets by users is worrying people.
     
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  13. Bayard

    Bayard Bug Hunter

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    While I enjoyed being able to see, and occasionally purchase, accounts from forum posts, I think you are making the right decision.

    One suggestion, change the word "supported" to "allowed on the forums" to remove any ambiguity. I never thought I was violating the TOS because I never asked, or expected, Portalarium to support my account purchase. Cheers!
     
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  14. Gix

    Gix Avatar

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    I really don't care about RMT but reading this announcement raised a few questions:

    So the trusted trader can contact you if they have a grievance with us, but if we have a problem with them we can't contact Portalarium support? Why would they ever bother to contact you if we have a problem with them?

    Who are these trusted traders and why do you trust them?

    Also, there's an important difference between "enforcing" against something and "not supporting" it. To avoid further confusion and frustration in the future, please use more precise wording such as "Account transfers are not allowed".

    ...

    Also...

    https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?threads/trusted-traders-program.826155/

    You might want to watch out for what Portalarium representatives say.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2018
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  15. Elrond

    Elrond Avatar

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    I dont think thats what he means ... if i read correctly players can still sell accounts just not on sota forum .
     
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  16. Fruck

    Fruck Avatar

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    I think not supporting it means exactly what it says.... If you sell an account privately and contact Port support for any issues they dont have to help you. They might... The line around contact the trusted trader means they are the ones you go to for help if there are issues with the transaction. I assume there are different agreements in place with trusted traders vs general population that covers the support model for this stuff.

    I dont think its very confusing at all... Sell accounts fine, Port just doesnt have to help you doing it.
     
  17. Solazur

    Solazur Avatar

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    In addition perhaps a change in the wording of the tip might be in order. It currently says : "This sub-forum is for SELLING items, pledges, etc. EXCEPT housing/lots/rentals. Please use the housing exclusive forum section for those transactions. All marketplace rules apply in this sub-forum. A reminder to keep all real currency transactions here in the marketplace" (emphasis mine)
     
  18. Gix

    Gix Avatar

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    Then why would it be something that needs to be enforced?

    Because that just sounds like they just don't want people talking about selling accounts.

    If they're trying to create a safe trade environment, why can't we contact support directly and, if we have to deal with the Trusted trades in the first place, why is account selling not allowed in the forums? Because support can't support us? Judging by @DarkStarr 's own post, if we have issues with anything related to the Trusted trades, we have to deal with them ourselves anyways.

    So what's the point of the OP if not to announce that they're (now) enforcing a rule that was already active in the first place?
     
  19. Cryodacry

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    @DarkStarr Honestly i see the best possible resolution for this would be to offer Character transfer service tokens that can be purchased to transfer a character from one account to anouther. This is a page from Eve Online. You get 20 bucks for the transfer and possibly a Sale of the game copy for the new character owner. This seems like a truely win/win as characters could still be sold and Port would be able to take a 20$ tax for transferring the character data.

    I would limit this to just the characters... Anything that may or may not come with the character data IE bank items will not be supported. Make the stipulation that in order to Sell the character you must have two characters on your account. Anouther Win for Port as you sell character slots now ! .... Either way i see this being an easy win for you guys and keeping the community happy.
     
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  20. Fruck

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    Darkstarr already covered why they dont want to support it, not sure why this is still being questioned. And if they dont support it I can understand why they dont want it in the forums here. Having the transaction occur via the forum would imply Port has something do to with it....
     
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