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Please reconsider rare drop recipes being teachable

Discussion in 'Release 38 Dev+ Feedback Forum' started by Umuri, Jan 24, 2017.

  1. Umuri

    Umuri Avatar

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    A "rare" item is not rare if it can be infinitely duplicated.
    The only point of something being a rare drop is to control the supply, or limit it/make it a reward for effort.

    Since a teachable recipe can be infinitely duplicated, then you basically remove that content from the game system once a community-minded person gets ahold of it.
    Even if you argue some people will sell it, you are then providing a 1 time boost of gold to the first person who gets it, then making the content pointless/gone for everyone else, since they'll just go to their local crafters fair to get it.

    I feel that it's functionally no different than saying "The first person to kill this boss gets 100k gold".
    It provides a one-time boost of content to an individual or group, but then effectively wastes that development time because the content isn't there for the future. It just becomes another "tax" you have to pay to the incumbent players as a method of redistributing wealth.
     
  2. Roycestein Kaelstrom

    Roycestein Kaelstrom Avatar

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    I'm good with making teachable and not re-teachable. That way a person can make a living out of teaching the whole world the recipe.
     
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  3. DarkStarr

    DarkStarr Executive Producer Moderator SOTA Developer

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    The lowest level potions are reteachable.
    The midlevel potions are teachable but not reteachable.
    The highest level potions are not teachable.

    So this is already the case.
     
  4. GrayFog

    GrayFog Avatar

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    Oh my goodness.....

    Please do NOT make the rare recipe drops "teachable"....
    If you finally want some items in game with some value, again, please do NOT make em "teachable"!!!!
     
  5. GrayFog

    GrayFog Avatar

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    ok i can live with that :p
     
  6. Brass Knuckles

    Brass Knuckles Avatar

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    I find easy mode games get very boring fast.
     
  7. Umuri

    Umuri Avatar

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    Then maybe I should rephrase my request that things that drop off high level content, should not be considered midlevel.
    So far i've been able to grab a potion of acumen recipe, which seems rare enough and hard enough to craft that i'd consider it high enough level to warrant being unteachable.

    Also economically i don't see a difference in rarity between teachable and re-teachable.
    All it takes is 1 person either selling the recipe to be taught, or giving it away in crafting workshops, to turn a rare recipe common and removing that as effective content and instead turns it into another player based goldsink.
     
  8. mystarr

    mystarr Avatar

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    I would argue for making all of them (except maybe the low end) NOT teachable. One thing the game is really lacking is a reason to adventure. Especially in "end game" (4-5 skulls) areas. The current loot in 4-5 skulls areas is not much different than what you can get in the Soltown sewers. Looking for "rare" recipes would add some excitement to the loot tables. It also gives players something to strive for while they play/adventure. If the recipes can be taught then anyone in a guild or at a community event will pretty much pick them up automatically.

    In addition, if you make them unteachable at first you can always evaluate and modify later. If you make them teachable to start with you cant put the genie back in the bottle...
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2017
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  9. GrayFog

    GrayFog Avatar

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    You sir, you nailed it.

    I also would prefer to only have the lower ones teachable/re-teachable.
    But like i said above, i can live with the current choices.
     
  10. nonaware

    nonaware Avatar

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    this ^
     
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  11. kaeshiva

    kaeshiva Avatar

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    See, I disagree, I think they should be teachable, as making crafting content only available by adventuring is just more forcing crafters into combat. I think we need more emphasis on tradeskill development by actually crafting rather than going out and fighting to do everything. I'd have much preferred to see the ability to learn a new focus potion recipe by, I don't know, maybe crafting focus potions?
     
  12. Bahamut Arc

    Bahamut Arc Avatar

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    Ehww, No! A crafter should buy and sell stuffs to get his hands on what he wants.. stop with the easy mode already. Im not even a hardcore player, im casual.
     
  13. Roycestein Kaelstrom

    Roycestein Kaelstrom Avatar

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    I think these recipes should be teachable (not re-teachble).

    Before I chime in my thoughts further, I just want to make sure that we're on the same page as far as the terminology:
    • Teachable: the person learn from the recipe can pass down the knowledge to someone else. The pupils however cannot teach the recipe to other people.
    • Re-teachble: anyone who knows the recipe can teach it to anyone else.
    Now here are some points of observation to make sure we're on the same page when it comes to determine whether making rare recipe teachable are truly easy mode or not.

    1. If the recipe is rare, but potentially infinite, it will just be a matter of time until someone farm them for a living and everyone has access to make the item. How is that different from this one guy who get a hold of recipe and pass down to others for a price? This is not a matter of difficulty, but rather the matter of time before everyone knows the recipe.
    2. If the recipe is rare and finite, people will be crying that the big guilds monopolize all the rare recipes, which blocks access to other people. What if all of them who know the recipes decide to leave the game? The knowledge would be lost.
    3. Teachable recipe does give alternative value in case the items are not in high demand. At least the person who can teach can still make money from the teaching to limited group of people (let's say for 10k GP). Again since this is not re-teachble, so the originators will be the one who can control the flow of the overall production.
     
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  14. nonaware

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    i guess it just comes down to it being better imo to start with things being to hard than have them to easy.

    people might complain about things being to hard but there will be less of an impact long term if you make it easier vs making it harder on the people that come late to the party.
     
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  15. Chris

    Chris Tech Lord Moderator SOTA Developer

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    I just finished the loot tables yesterday and can confirm what DarkStarr and Roycestein have said.

    Lesser potions are reteachable and should spread fast.
    Mid level potions are teachable, meaning you must find someone who has read the scroll.
    High power potions can only be learned from the scroll.

    As for the drops, lower tier creatures will only drop lesser and mid potions. High power potion recipes are very rare drops off tier 5+ stuff and rare drops off high end stuff T10 and boss types. Also, as you might expect, caster types are more likely to drop recipes. Non-caster types are more likely to drop actual potions (not the recipes).

    Artifact drops start as low as T3 but at that tier they are the weaker items and very rare, like 1 in 10k range. Higher level creatures expand the loot table and the drop chances. I won't go into all the artifacts out there there but I will say there are far more than were listed. Also, they are not intended to compete with crafted items. Crafted items are primarily just positive benefits. Most artifacts bring powerful benefits and also powerful side effects. I made them all and largely I tried to think of various play style types and create items that might enhance or even amplify those play styles. These will likely need more tweaking over time and I also plan to continue to sneak these without a patch note so look for rare surprises!

    Also, for now I'm leaving these on the standard percentage drop rate table but I expect they will be moved to a system closer to COTOs where we can enforce a max drop rate per hour or day for the entire server to keep them semi rare. So as always, farm early, farm often on recipes and artifacts as they likely will become more rare at some point in the future.
     
  16. nonaware

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    thanks for the indepth response :)
     
  17. GrayFog

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    Just to make sure, please take a look at this:
    https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/f...-loot-on-hardened-mages-and-lich-mages.77693/

    i believe the drops are quite too much and too often, every mage type mob drops stuff like crazy. Also Elven Archer in The Rise.
    Recipe Potion of Acumen pretty much drops always.
    Must be a bug?
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2017
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  18. Poor game design

    Poor game design Avatar

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    Really cool...

    Any thoughts on possible expansion of this system to allow for players to create these artifacts themselves (maybe with dropped recipes)?

    I also think it would be a lot of fun if players could take +12 and above items that they created and through some process create an artifact where they're picking and choosing the negative associated effects as well as the positive ones. This would give players incentive to try the RNG one more time, while also giving them the freedom to make some truly powerful items (complete with downsides).
     
  19. Brass Knuckles

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    This is the right path, great work team!
     
  20. GrayFog

    GrayFog Avatar

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    Dunno but, even in an crafting based game i like stuff in loottables that nobody else can make.
    UO was the same and it worked.

    Well your idea isn't bad though, but please do not turn everything into recipes :p
     
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