Poll: PVP or PVE - Which Are You? [UNOFFICIAL]

Boosting players that take little risk is being ego. And no PvP players take higher risk so the reward of just staying alive is not reward enough. How can it even be considered a reward?

And why give the same rewards for players that take less risk?

PvP and also killing mobs is the higher risk.

You dont like risk vs reward?

 

The point I was trying to make in my last post.. was that sure, maybe your right there doesnt need to be any "extra rewards" obtainable only through PvP. But perhaps there ought to be items that are only attainable through PvP, that do not have any assigned value to it, sort of like those non-functional semi-rares like coiled wire and dried herbs. Neat little trinkets and the player driven economy will be what assigns the value to these items. Coiled wire was worthless in UO you couldnt do anything with it, and NPC's wouldnt buy it, but players would pay 1k to use it as a house decoration. It was neat and interesting and somewhat tough to find. If there are certain PvP only semi-rares whats the big deal? There is no need to go into PvP to obtain the item if you dont want to, just buy it from another player. I doubt it will end up like the diablo 3 auction house. There not going to have an auction house, or at least I hope not! Im thinking part of the reason they decided to get rid of the auction house was because players were playing single player pretty much, in diablo 2 you were forced to socialize with others to make trades, auction house killed that.
Its just like picking a particular trade. Say your a blacksmith/miner because this is were your interests lie. Your going to end up collecting ore and building armour and selling it to other players who... did not choose to be a blacksmith/miner, perhaps for them the idea of mining and smithing all day is awfully boring, but they certainly enjoy the armour that comes from this trade. So what they do is exchange with you what they earn for their trade for the things that you earn from your trade. So an adventurer will likely give the blacksmith gold, or other things obtained traveling the land and slaying evil monsters. The blacksmith doesnt want to travel the land and slay evil monsters, he wants to mine, and smith.
So.... lets look at it this way now. PvE players do NOT want to PvP its gross, its horrible for them to be exposed to PvP. So instead they stay in a PvP free environment and focus on gaining levels, gold, treasures in this environment. Now, there are certain items in this game that cannot be obtained in the PvE only area, so what the PvE players can do is buy items from the PvPer's and the PvPer's can buy items from the PvEr's.
To say that having particular items available to PvP players in a PvP environment is unfair because you dont PvP is like saying that its unfair that the ONLY way to obtain ingots and ore is through mining. There should be particular kinds of rewards that only certain players are able to obtain the raw natural way(without purchasing it, producing it on their own). So because I like to mine, I should be entitled to the ore and ingots that I mine. If you develop lumberjacking your entitled to all the wood you can harvest. How is it unfair that I dont collect wood from mining, and you dont collect ore from lumberjacking? One skill/playstyle only collects a certain resource. Same goes for PvP/PvE, if I enjoy adventuring in a PvP environment and there are certain resources/items here that are equal to the PvE but maybe different color or something we are perfectly welcome to trade. No one is forced into each other's style of play, I can play the PvP environment, you can do PvE. Just like one player can be a miner, the other can be a lumberjack and these two players are free to exchange wood for ore, and ore for wood.

 

I want one world, without artificial boundaries that break the games logic...
We have enough lightweight MMOs out there that feel like large chatrooms but are no online world at all.
Don't try to seperate PVE and PVP economy here.

 

They already separated PvE and PvP so it is only logical to separate their rewards and economy.

Otherwise all will play PvE for easy rewards. Why gather in the harsh enviroment?

 

I see this as no different from having a military and civilian population. The PvE rewards seem easy because someone has done the work of making them safe. Military operations exist so that territory gets taken and secured, allowing our team to mine and gather while denying it to the other team. This isn't about every man for himself, it's about coordination and empire building.

 

In games you have same mobs in both game types and the difference in the PvP mode is that you have to fight players as well as the mobs.

So better reward to the ones that take the higher risk.

 

Well they enable people to play without PVP. That doesn't mean that they cannot have the same economy.
There just has to be an incentive to play with PVP mode enabled. I'd prefer that over a split economy and I am sure they're not going that path, because it would require too much resources in development.

They advertise the game beeing UOesque, but with a much better system concerning PVP Combat penalties and rewards etc I suppose. "Origin" used to create worlds, not Themeparks

 

Pot, meet Kettle.

Enough, guys, really. You're no longer adding to the discussion, just slinging insults. Back on topic?

 

Here we have a grand role playing game, where in the finest traditions of role playing games, one can adopt any role one chooses, from heroic to craven, from altruistic to greedy, and from good to evil. You suggest a game design whereby players can demonstrate the ease with which they can be trained.

I don't think there is a viable marketing campaign that can be built around that.

 

As long as those items are not needed in any way for PvE - or, if they are needed for PvE, there is a good enough replacement that is obtainable through pure PvE - that is fine. I was never against bragging rights items being exclusive to specific activities; what I'm completely opposite to is items that are required to achieve peak performance being only obtainable through specific play styles.

This does mean that I want items that are as good as the very best gear obtainable in PvE to be somehow available through pure PvP, BTW. It would be the fair thing to do. The same way I don't want to ever be forced into a PvP situation against my will, I don't want to force anyone in a PvE situation if they don't want to engage in PvE.

As long as it's balanced between both game modes. The best rewarding PvP activities should allow players to accumulate riches at roughly the same rate as the best rewarding PvE activities in order to not make efficiency minded players feel forced to choose a game mode they dislike.

Like I said before, if - given close enough rewards for the time invested - the extra thrill and challenge of PvP is not enough to make you want to engage in PvP, perhaps PvP is not really what you want. I've seen enough desire to just prevent other players from progressing thinly disguised as a desire for "PvP", and that desire - a desire to prevent fellow players from progressing just to feel better about your own progression - is something that I can never agree with.

 

Yes i want to PvP and since it is the harder game mode with competition from both NPC mobs and other PvP players they reward should be bigger.

If there is any competitive gaming at all in SotA then this is how it should work. Higher reward for taking a bigger risk.

 

@Ara: I agree on nearly no point with you, but summarized: You want a game, where the hardcore PvP crowd has more and better ressources in the game =>this crowd is automatically better equipped than players of other playstyles => the other playstyles (like the epic campaign, etc.) becoming less interesting for those PvP players, because they become too easy for the overequipped players...

And: You want to give this Hardcore and overequipped PvP players the opportunity to attack the less equipped PvE players, too?

I'm sure I wouldn't want to play this game, because it would cater towards an elitist crowd at the expense of all others...



P.S: because some people misinterpret something: In most MMOs I played, I wasn't in the less equipped, but in the top equipped crowd, where I was bored by the majority of the content, which became much too easy for my equipment level...

 

I really hear you there. MMOs - and specially their solo and small group content - tend to be already far too easy even at the proper level and with the correct gear, and become easy to the point of being boring after the player gets some gear from the large group part of the game. I believe the path to avoiding this lies in making every way of playing, regardless of group size or PvP preference, roughly equivalent when it comes to progression, which is what I hope SotA does. If the only content that can challenge me enough to not be boring requires scheduling a game session with 20 other players I will be really disappointed.

BTW, my usual gripe with how other players defend PvP is not with the PvP itself. I actually love PvP, and I'm often fairly good at it, but I enjoy it in a non-competitive way. I play for the fun in it, regardless of whether I win or lose. Heck, if playing against someone less skilled (or, in games with gear, less geared) than myself I will try to impose enough restrictions on myself to make the outcome unpredictable, because that is when PvP really becomes interesting for me. Any proposal for PvP that makes it punish the losers, or makes players care more about winning than about having fun, turns the PvP from something I enjoy into something I can't be bothered to play.

 

If you treat Player versus Player like a trade I can see what you mean by giving PvP certain items that can be sold like a crafter would do with their craft. And that would be ok. It would be just another from of trade and can be treated as such. Those that don't want to take part in the delivering contraband because that doesn't fit the role they want to play can always buy the gear from those that do if they want the item bad enough.

My biggest concern is how PvPers will be handled. Will there be jail time when they are caught? Where there be hefty penalties when they are killed? There are people out there that PvP through guild wars or against people their own level and that is fine. But, what about the people that stalk low level characters just so they can. Those that don't have the money to keep several sets of armor because they just started out and keep getting killed as soon as they leave town? How will they be protected?

Should they stay huddled into towns because they are too afraid to leave? Even then that won't protect them since they will have to deal with people stalking them just to steal what little they have. I speak from personal experience from Ultima Online. Playing for a few hours I was killed a couple of times by PvPs just because they could and then chased around town by a guy who wanted to steal what little I had on me just because he could. He was telling me to just let him steal from me and then call the guards. But why chase me around to steal nothing of value when you could just steal from someone who would let you or try stealing from someone else all together who had something of value. It was the reason I could never really get into Ultima Online. I had just started and could not even get a chance to learn how to play the game.

 

Why should the hardcore PvP players be better equipped if gear is as easy replaced as it was for example UO? Weapons and armor should be easily replacable upon death.

PvE players can gather and craft all day long without any interference from other human players. Human players gathering in high risk areas with higher rescources will fail their gathering missions way more often since PK:s will kill them.

This is easily balanced by developers, better rescources in highrisk areas but less successful gathering missions.

I dont want this game to be as WoW where you get over powered gear that took you 2 weeks to find, Gear should be easily replaced.

 

@Ara
Have you ever come across the phrase "Money is just a way of keeping score"? Do you know what it means? Like, what it REALLY means, not just the obvious connatations?

 

Agree 100%

In UO, pre AOS everybody had player crafted items......a lot of PKs didn't even wear armer other than the parts they looted. A PK in those days was a profession and what many players used to do for the thrill of it.

After AOS it was actually the PvMers who had the good items, they historically had the money to purchase them and had the skills to obtain them........it took a long time got the true PvPers to kit themselves out.

 

@Ara and EWHART, because I'm curious:

What would you need the ressources for, when anything is easily replacable? Why should I go mining in dangerous places? What would I need better ressources for? Buy more houses and decorations? More Cosmetic Items? Why should I become a crafter, if equipment is meaningless? Why repair stuff, when I can just throw it away and buy new one? Why should I bother at all with equipment, when I'm as effective nude? Why care about Player Looting? Why bring stuff to the bank? What did you do with all that ressources you gathered? And then why bother about dying? Why should I care as a fan of traditional fantasy roleplaying games like Ultima 4 and 7, when the game becomes more or less like Counter Strike, where players play "Cowboys and Indians"?

P.S. That doesn't mean, that I'm looking for a game, that highly depends on equipment. I'm more like Silent Stride, that I want to get challenging gameplay outside of PvP and big raids, too and don't want equipment to trivialize content. But I like being rewarded from time to time with a piece of equipment, that I can actually use (through succesful crafting, questing or looting)

 

Where is the option for both, where applicable?

 

I think you kind of miss the point of what a true PK used to be. As I said it was a job, the PK never used to go out looking for difficult people to kill, we used to go looking for easy kills such as miners......they mine so we didn't have to.... As a result the PK never really needed high end gear.

I don't mind what gear you craft as long as it stays on your body when you die. I will then either wear it when I PK or sell it on my vendor.