Poll - should we have skill decay?

Being awesome all day haven't made your mediocrity decay?

 

Go on themo rub it in our faces

 

Oo

 

Did you have 4x in Adv and Prod XP pool when you login?

There, the 4x is the effect of the decay. As long as you're recovering from decay, the game gives you a temp 4x boost.

*** ASSUMING YOU ALREADY FINISHED YOUR PRE-WIPE 4x BONUS, OF COURSE ***

 

I have 4x in both yea. But, still, I guess my point was just that people here are making a big deal about the decay mechanic -- and I'm not really saying whether its fine or it should be changed -- just saying I haven't paid close enough attention to notice it.

I think when people say it will drive players away from the game they're assuming those players will close attention to the numbers. Again, not saying it shouldn't be changed. But are most people min/maxers?

 

I wonder how many of those who voted can even define what they voted for/against with any reasonable accuracy...and no I still did not vote, not even out of curiosity regarding those numbers

There are exactly two things I don't like in the present [skill decay] implementation: 1) being penalized by offline time and 2) skill maintenance costs (esp. high level) might be unrealistic. The first one is apparently going to be fixed. The second one has several ways to fix it - I did propose a slightly more complex (but more realistic) way in a separate thread, but one could also simply fine-tune the present mechanics, for instance by

• setting up indicators regarding decay (color-coded and/or frayed looking icons in the skill tree)
  
• setting up higher decay restoration rate for certain skills, i.e. much lower xp cost for relearning a decayed skill (simulating fast relearning as observed also with almost all real life skills)
  
• setting up a lower limit for decay (low level skills should not decay at all - the "riding a bike" analogy)

There are ways to make anything work, it's all a matter of implementation. So please don't throw the baby out with the bathwater -- the skill decay approach has all potential for being the best approach if done properly. It also has all potential for being alienating, and there are certainly other approaches, but concluding that "decay" in general is "alienating a large portion of our future population" is absurd - this kind of claim can only apply to a particular implementation of "decay" and not any of the tens if not hundreds of alternative implementations of "decay".

Regarding the real life skill decaying rates - it all depends on the level.
For example that "you never forget how to ride a bike" analogy - that could be likened to a level 25 skill. Riding a one-wheeler on a suspended wire, or doing top level bike trial obstacle course could be GM level stuff.
Or: Jumping is level 20 stuff -- pretty much everybody learns how to jump as a child, and this skill does not begin to decay until after 50-60 years of age (and not at all if the skill is given even rudimentary maintenance). On the other hand, Olympic level high jumping requires a combination of explosive power and very fine-tuned motor skills - that's GM level jumping and that kind of skill can easily decay even in a matter of days.

 

I mainly say that because when i chase down MIA people and ask them where they went, an increasingly common answer is "X skill went backwards and it made me sad so i don't feel like playing". I also knew that would happen since it happens in any game with a decay mechanic. Even some of the people posting here said that and are only logging in to talk to friends.

 

Almost every single MMO out there is based on numbers. "You need at least X hit chance to go into that instance" or "we don't have enough DPS to clear this before it enrages" combined with a bit of "I started playing the new MMORPG/ARPG called <Random Action> of the <Ominous Group> let's level as fast as i can't enjoy quality PVE/PVP until i'm top level" have made people to intrinsically worry about numbers. Even if they're not trying to min max, Decay in its current implementation is pushing back everybody, and it's noticeable if you choose to notice it, or if you're in one of the groups that notices it more (currently, casual players, imo). What i'm trying to say is that almost everybody will pay attention to numbers.

I get that people doesn't want to feel punished, but that only means we need to make the mechanic to What needs to be done about all this whole progression uprising is:
- Make sure that "being competitive before reaching a Themo Lock state of being" is still a thing here (i personally don't see much effort going down that way).
- Acknowledge how & why current implementation of decay failed to achieve what it intended to achieve.
- Redesign the mechanic in another attempt to make it fulfill its purpose.

We (well at least I) wanted something else from this game than just a standard. We already know that the standard works, that's why it's standard. But i think we're here to try to do something different AND better. Currently it's only different; what can make it better is testing and development.

Excellent post. I'd sign it.

 

Your response is the best I've seen here. The poll is binary so I wont participate. However, I hope that the devs take another look at how decay is working in the game presently.

 

@KuBaTRiZeS ,

I pay attention to my skill numbers when they're really low and have to meet some minimum. Like, in the beginning, you have to get it over 10. But I really don't care about the difference between 82 and 84 , so at some point I just stop paying attention, and just play the game.

 

Chris actually said it will get another look.. though he only mentioned changing the way it was applied and not how it was generated. As upsetting as i find this mechanic, i am pretty sure it will see change.

 

I know you do but i also know the rest don't. People is used to constant gratification, and that's mainly reflected in the character stats (the good ol' e-peen). Maybe we gather enough players willing to toss some of that gratification away, but directly punishing them for not playing is hard. And they'll notice. Even when they could just focus on playing and having fun... but experience tells me that's the way MMOs are usually played.

 

I'm sure people will notice and complain, which is why its a legitimate issue to address. Especially because the way the game does it.

I just don't know about what "the rest" means. I'm just saying because I want to keep the issue in perspective. Hopefully, when the whole game is done, when we're beyond alpha and beyond beta, and there's a lot of real game content, people won't rage quit just because of some silly decay issue.

But, that said, once again I'm not trying to put down the issue as a whole, since I think its going to continue to bug some people regardless.

 

That was the point i was trying to make; annoyness is caused by the way the game does decay currently. If we change it we can have the pros without the cons.

Me neither, I actually like the concept of decay a lot.

That's also right; the only thing we have to do atm is to level up. When "the rest" (i meant MMO average players) are exploring scenes and falling into meaningful random events and finding other people and going into quests and stuff i'm pretty sure the annoyance will be reduced.

It's a fact that you can't keep everybody happy.

 

.02

Does skill decay actually function as intended? Is it preventing an overflow of GMs?

I'm not sure I would even be worried about too many GMs in game. I also have the unpopular opinion that people should be able to level up any number of skills to any degree they see fit. If you want to compete in PvP then you just have to work as hard and be as creative and effective as everyone else that wants to play that way. I don't see the problem even if all the GM players are fully leveled in every skill. PvP will still be fun because it will be dependent on teamwork, communication, and strategy. If the noob in your guild keeps getting killed you might just have a new vendetta and that's super fun. Don't go PvP until you're good enough to lend your skills to the guild.

Also, PvP should have level options once the community is large enough. If you want to battle people as a beginner you should be able to find beginner battles. Tournaments. Monthly jousting and tomato throwing parties. Obviously Darkstarr should not challenge a level 20 player in a beginner tournament even if it's allowed...it would be unsavory and people would boo and pummel him with rotten fruit.

Another way to ensure unpredictable elements in battle is to provide more unique items to both be discovered and to create (i'm sure this is going to happen).

The skill atrophy should simply take your xp down to the last achieved level in that skill. If you were 90% of the way to level 85 polearm but then you got a job counting Orcas in Antarctica, well, you'd come back be level 84. Even Olympic athletes can remember the last skill they were working on after long breaks. Or, with music...I may not be able to play a song after months of not having practiced but it would take near a whole lifetime for me to forget what techniques and general concepts were involved. You don't forget what tools are needed and how to use the tools when building a table, though your lack of practice may make your lines a little rough for a day or two. It all comes back so fast.

 

Skill decay sounds like a good idea to me. It would give the character a sense of changing over time. You could tell stories of how you were once a well known and talented blacksmith, then lost your touch after some time(say you quit playing SotA for awhile then got the urge to play again). Instead of making a whole new character, your already a blank slate again. You redesign yourself in a way. 5 months ago you were that talented smith, now your on the path to becoming an alchemist or a fighter or whatever.

 

Skill atrophy should be used while in game only. Offline shouldn't be a factor at all. After 3-4 in game days the effect might start etc. Penalizing someone while offline kills motivation to play, min / maxing or not.

But to be honest, this shouldn't be as a hot topic that it is, presently with a potential finished product this year, this should be tweaked LAST while actually finishing of skill trees, completing of quests, especially main story ones, those should be the hot button issues.

Whilst I understand the concern, especially considering this system is adding punishment where none should be needed, we are comparing SoTA with RL. If I wanted it to be like RL, I would BE a blacksmith, I come to play a game and live in this world. It seems like a lot of people think this system will create immersion, but to me in creates frustration.(opinion of course, and system is not fleshed out yet, but anything like this to me doesn't create immersion, it acts as a punishment in my opinion)

The goal is not to have everyone be a GM? Why would they be? I have no intention of sitting there with a hammer and anvil for in-game days and pound away. People who have worked for the skill will likely keep it fresh, because in their human minds, if they come back after a hiatus, they will forget how to exactly do it themselves after longer than a month, I don't need the game to have my avatar forget as well.

And on top of that, if I'm forgetting because I'm away offline, (and i'm sorry for beating a dead horse but I hate this mechanic) what is so IRL about fizzling my spells in plate armor? I can't swing my arms as wide to complete the "FUUUUU......SSSSSIIIIIOOOONNNN! HA!!!"?

If IRL is really what we are going for, I believe far more systems may have to be looked at more in-depth than we think.

 

That may be where battlegrounds will help out in that for different levels or something. Not really sure how they will work though. Only saw they are mentioned on steam in the future updates section.

More Scenes: Many additional scenes will come online including cities, dungeons, deserts, arctic areas, swamps, fortifications, battlegrounds, etc.
http://store.steampowered.com/app/326160/

 

The current skill system capping via decay is going to make SotA another game fill with macroers and bots. We've already seen it start happening, gustballs being a prime example. During the stream it seems you'll be able to get several GM level skills but only if you play a huge amount per week. This will lead to bots. No MMO game ever has been able to stop botters and it's a HUGE waste of Dev time to fight them. I feel it also goes against their (abandoned?) goal of having this be a low grind game. It sounds like casual and honest players will just have to accept being 20% less effective than those with massive time to play, or willing to bot.

Even if we keep the use base system trying to use a decay system tied to real time needs to go unless we want a game mainly played by software.

 

I see it very simple.

Getting killed ingame means you need to be brought back from the death

Getting resureccted removes some % of your skill as the dead otherworld always keeps some of you.


Now it is in the gamers hand to play wise and good. Not in some decay forced system we have no influence on.

PvP tournaments and duels are not fights to death.