Discussion in 'PvP Gameplay' started by tiggis2006, Apr 16, 2014.
For their sake, I hope that's true. Somedays you're just iceskating uphill at work. With the road they have ahead of them... something ought to come out of it.
I'VE proven intractable? You are talking about me, specifically? I'd love to see what you think I've personally done that is intractable, or even unreasonable. I'm just putting forward my viewpoint.
If you are instead speaking of some larger community of people when you say that, you should specify, since I do not officially belong to any group other than "SotA Backers", and that's a LARGE group of people to be calling intractable.
It seems to me the fundamental issue with PvP is some people just want to clown and gank on noobs all day
and if they can't do that they don't think they'll have fun PvPing. There's a lot of people that only liked UO when it was crazy,
and they always say the same thing : It was the visceral thrill of being killed at anytime that they want and will miss.
Unfortunately there are other players that just want to craft, be out fishing, or walk around towns RPing and those aforementioned
folks don't really care about those people's play styles. (witness the dismissive and derogatory term "Carebears" for example)
I'm not sure there really is a solution that would work for everyone
I just wish I knew the likelihood of that becoming an issue. Hexes are pretty big in my opinion and 64 people is a very small number. I really like the potential for intimacy (get your head out of the gutter, perverts!) that we have but when the player matching gets through your group, your guild and your friends even if you aren't in FPO your chances of running into someone who isn't at least somewhat likeminded could be very slim. They were even talking about friends of friends factoring into the matching. I don't see myself being popular by any means but MGT470 will probably have a lot of members since we'll be helping everyone so I don't think I'll be matched up with griefers or even gold farmers (well at least that is the way it looks on paper.)
That's actually a really good point. I'm not sure how representative R4 was, but I always ran into tons of people in the towns but hardly ever anyone when in a hex with "nothing" in it.
I guess it depends on how often people "go" to those "empty" hexes. I think we need to see a couple more versions before it becomes clear how "populated" the game feels.
It's also important to remember that even in the population of early backers, there are varying levels of interest in the closed betas. We will probably see a MASSIVE influx of players once the game get's near completion, and another even larger one after official release.
We may see a massive influx as soon as PvP goes live. I know I haven't bothered to log in yet, but probably will as soon as I hear of someone having fun.
Ears are being anxiously kept to the ground on that one.
I wonder reading hundreds of posts in which ppl ask to balance PvP and PK. Just switch to co-op. And I still can't get why ppl choose this game and want it to be casual mob killing game. There hundreds of such games. At this moment only 2-3 games on a radar which can make old UO players feel like "this is my home" and after reading posts like ESO is good or GW is good... Damn, ESO is worst game ever so GW is. Why to play such a game? There are League of Legends or DOTA. Why to play same game but with 3rd person camera. Skill decks wuth 5-8 skills. Nowadays ppl can't use 20-30? Like in old good times. Now everyone likes to compare any game with WoW. But WoW during first 2 years was much more hardcore than all modern games.
What do you mean by co op? I can come up with several meanings of the term, but none of them are actual SotA terminology.
Are you referring the the Friend's Play Online (FPO) option? If so, I must point out that that question has been asked and answered repeatedly. Everyone has a right to play the game they paid for. The game does not service ANY style of play over another, with the exception of true Griefers (those who's purpose and source of enjoyment is the frustration and dismay of other players), who are not serviced at all.
Making the ~50% of the player base who want to play PvE limit their gameplay to only FPO, or only certain geographies, or only certain story content, is just as unfair and unreasonable as making the ~50% of players who desire PvP limit THEIR gameplay to only FPO or certain geographies or story content.
It will be possible with the proposed system to play OPO, and yet only ever interact with players who are of the same mindset as you, regardless of your mindset. There is room for everyone. There is absolutely no need to coerce anyone into any bizarre new setup to control PvP vs PvE.
How is it any different?
People are still not opting in on PvP. The PvP will still happen either way.
No disrespect, but what's your point (Aside from beating the same dead horse yet again... That poor corpse must be beaten to pulp by now!) with the above post?
The mission statement for SotA has been very clear from the start:
"Shroud of the Avatar is the “spiritual successor” to Richard’s previous work in the FRP genre. Our primary objectives are to tell a story even more compelling than Ultimas IV-VII, create a virtual world more interactive than Ultima VII, develop deep rich multi-player capabilities beyond combat akin to Ultima Online, and offer a bold new approach to integrate them with “Selective Multi-Player”."
Also they've make very very clear from the start that PvP will be optional (i.e. opt-in).
But do ppl need story? There are alot of single player games with story. What is the point to have a MMO or whatever with optional pvp? It wont be a sandbox and it wont be something special. As I told above there are alot of MMORPG, at least its devs call em thisway with optional pvp or without pvp at all. LoTRO is the best example. Cool single/co-op game. But still if this awesome game market with casual non pvp, full loot, or any other kind of risk games are that good why so many ppl are playing UO? Its 17 years old and its picture making eyes to bleed but still it gives the atmosphere of dangerous world in which you have freedom. Not like "here is your quest, just follow the arrow on your radar, read text or dont, anyway it's simple so even 12 years old can do it, dont be affraid to lose anything, done" I think big part of this community tried ESO. I wonder if at least anyone liked the story and at least read text.
That is an irrelevant question... This game has a stated primary goal which is telling a story. Tens of thousands of people pledged for the game. That answers your question.
If you don't like it, so be it, but that IS the MAIN premise the kickstarter was based upon. and that IS what the game will be about. Period...
(PS: I'd like to reiterate that *I* personally think PvP has a place in the game, as does PvE. I have been a proponent of a better looting system than originally proposed, but I do not agree with non-consensual PvP, let alone a FFA type game.)
First off: Devs have said several times now that this is a Multiplayer game not a traditional MMO game.
Then to quote the kickstarter some:
"Lord British returns to his fantasy RPG roots with Shroud of the Avatar, hearkening back to his innovative early work."
"Shroud of the Avatar is the “spiritual successor” to Richard’s previous work in the FRP genre."
"Shroud of the Avatar is infused with rich storylines, deeply integrated into gameplay, developed by Best Selling Author Tracy Hickman and RPG legend Richard Garriott."
And I can keep quoting about the roleplaying and the storyline quite some time. If they removed the story and the roleplaying elements there would be a massive protest against Portalarium from a lot of pledgers, I would be one of those.
This old UO player is eagerly anticipating SotA as a place to call home.
A home where I can have my home again, in a land where the virtues matter.
Where stepping outside one's own door is not stepping into the lion's den.
This old UO player likely loved the game before you did, and wept over what it became.
Hmm many of us thought having no story was what made UO not Ultima...It almost sounds like you have no idea what Ultima was before UO.
Also, I'm pretty sure there are way more LOTRO players then UO players at the mement.
Did someone say story? Yes please!
If it wasn't for the Ultima story and lore, I would have played even less Ultima Online than I did. I hung in there for three years, but the constant digression from the Ultima history and the introduction of concepts which seemed quite silly, I had to give it up. The only thing that kept me in UO as long as it did was the sandbox element, but this was also a very big curse with the constant griefing and exploits from PKs.
I play LOTRO too, and have now for a lot longer than I ever did UO. I don't enjoy the game as much as I did some aspects of UO, but I can play it and play it my way as a casual gamer and that trumps everything else for me.
I think I should mentioned that co-op stands for cooperative.
With that said I just wanted to point out "non-PvPers" are not telling Open PvPers that they "should go play co-op" cause the nature of open PvP means your not co-op'ing. An open pvper accepts that another play could be role playing a murderer and attack me. By definition co-op is a mode that works exclusively FOR non-PvPers. Which is where a lot of the tension raised in these PvP discussions. Because open PvP'ers STILL; to this day, do not have an exclusive mode like that. A few people believe the dev team will be making an exclusive mode, but it hasnt been declared that "yes, it is happening".
Another point of contention with open PvPers is being able to "opt" all over the game. It's really 'cheating' the idea of open PvP. If you opt for open PvP and want to go gather material... you're running a lot of risk that you may be attacked. So why even opt to play open PvP durring then? It happened with Tram and Fel in UO. The only people that were in Fel were player hunters and murderers cause most of the players spent most of their time in these MMORPGs gathering/mining/crafting. If you give people a method to cheat the system, they will.
If you can't relate cause you are a PvE'er only... here is an example. If people could load up SotA and go into a mode where there were no monsters or mobs so that they could go and gathering/mining/crafting... ofcourse that would be abused by PvE'ers to cheat the game mechanics. Then they go into the PvE mode only when/if they want to play the game.
This is why I honestly believe SotA Dev team should make several flavors of games and remove this "opt'ing" around junk.
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