PVP & Death: Current Thinking Megapost

Personally I don't interpret this as wanting to make this game more WoW-like. This is just saying he doesn't like the proposed card system.

However it might be better if don't insult the card system because it indirectly insults the devs who fashioned it. Besides it's not bad to try new things, because it may result in something really good in the long run.

Weapon combat is a bit random, but spells I don't see how they could possibly come up at random. I don't like locking in a spell like heal to make sure it is always there either, because it takes one slot away from the rest of the random cards. I think the system needs to evolve a bit, so I'm not entirely happy with it yet either.

 

Losing by luck only 1 in 10 times is way too much for me.

 

Virtually every combat system has luck involved. It's randomized damage, random procs, random to-hit, and my least favorite random dodge/evade/miss. Instead of it being in the background this time you can see it. And using the Focus skills you will be able to manipulate it. The question is how much and how much they will have to tweak it to make it work.

 

For some reason I think it will be more frustrating to lose because you know what skill/spell you need to use but it's not there. That is different than randomly hitting or missing.

 

ROKA Infantry Regulars;

ROKA Tigers;



Isaiah Said;

Losing by luck only 1 in 10 times is way too much for me.
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~TL~ Grow thicker skin or live in a very sheltered world
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Dhailen Said;

It may give them a better chance, since every game out there gives them no chance at all, but I'm betting that chance is minimal.. Just like a nanny with a kitchen knife has a chance at fighting off a special forces soldier.
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~TL~
I'm not sure how many knife fights you've ever been in, but I do know what you're implying, and I agree
(I guess that depends on which country's SF soldiers one is referring to. These are just some people I once lived and trained with when I was a much younger man)
~Time Lord~ (aka, a man of many knife wounds)

So I'm not sure nanny ever met any of these fanatics with a kitchen knife;

 

That's different than hitting the spell and it randomly missing causing you to lose? Random the same, end result the same. Just looks different. I know it's a feeling thing, but it's not one that bothers me.

 

Actually, I think it's more than just looking or feeling different. I think hitting the spell that's "always there" and it randomly misses, wasting a shot and possibly wasting a global cool down (don't know if we'll have those), is worse than it not being there at all. I'd rather spend that time & that shot using the ones that are going to work. (That's assuming, of course, that we'll not have the random misses. We don't really know that yet. Or do we?)

It does mean we'll have to pay attention, and not just use formulas and overdone combos, and think, and make decisions on the fly. So many say this is what they want and yet don't even want to try a system that will provide that, just because it's not <insert tired old game system here>.

 

Luck doesn't bother me, unless it's just silly. Every game has RNG to it. Being good is about tilting the odds.
My problems with the card system are about the random / goofy proposed UI and the meta skill tree around the cards.
Most games have chance to hit/miss, chance to crit, procs, etc.

 

Mentally not the same. In one you did all you could possibly do. The other you feel constrained if you don't have the moves available to you. Also the strikes in SotA might not be automatic hits which means it could have a random system on top of another random system.

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however enough of that. One thing I've been playing with in the releases, are the dodges. When you are in combat mode you can dodge from side to side, or backwards by double clicking the A,S,D keys. This could be very useful for making combat a skill based rather than luck based.

Regardless of how the system looks in our mind now, I think the system will be refined and evolve to a truly player skill PvP system. I believe well timed dodges will be critical to success, especially if you use them only when you actually need them. A PvE player may never need to use them, and if they do it won't be the same as playing against another human player.

Currently the dodges work, but monsters seem to still be able to hit you even though you roll backwards 5 feet or so. I can't wait till the monsters miss you with a well timed dodge. This will mean player characters will in fact have a skill in combat.

NOW this is real evidence that the combat system will in fact be player skill oriented and not just luck based, and level based skills.

 

Well I like to play games that are fun! Random chances and sillyness can be tons of fun! It enables the mouse to get away from the cat once in awhile. Having some room for not knowing exactly whats gonna happen to me is refreshing and inspirational

 

I had an old WWII story I read in mind when I made that post, but when I use to go drinking with members of 5th Force Recon they had similar stories. I think some were just reminders to not underestimate someone defending their home and/or family... Even if they aren't soldiers. In life, one lucky move and things can end badly.

 

The only thing a bit deceiving about the charts is that UO (and Lineage 2) have always been popular on private servers. With numbers that dwarf the official paid subscribers.

 

"Chance is a difficult thing for some people to accept"

Yet traffic accidents happen to many great drivers and many a great soldier has died from their chances just having a bad day with a bad draw of the cards. I believe that our card system will encourage more players to become more friendly with others and be less of the lone wolf hunting spirits.
It's truly hard for some to be humble, yet it's the virtue of fellowship, that provides us the guide to learning that most Ultima valued quality.
It's Fellowship that trumps that unlucky card carrying day
Through learning how to be humble
~Time Lord~

 

Actually in PvP I find that the stakes are much higher than PvE. So some fun luck might be more interesting in PvE because it might not result in your death, but in PvP a screw up might be fatal. Also the pace of PvP is more intense and what might be fun in an "easier" play stile like PvE, may not be that great in PvP.

Still that doesn't mean that will happen here. However I do know that it is not fun to lose on accident in PvP, and it could lead to a broken mouse or keyboard, or some other temporary rage. Some of us might need to start keeping track of our blood pressure these days. lol So the system should give the player the feeling they really did do everything they could possibly do. Losing by making a mistake is one thing, loosing because your combos never came up will never be acceptable, especially if you get looted and pay a ransom or worse.

Really! This isn't a joke. PvPers will resent a system that gives them any "excuse" to cast blame on something else other than their play style. PvPers are competitive and they will find blame in the system for losing even if it isn't true.

 

I hear ya man, and you make a great case. I wish though there would have been a little luck in the past when i got gang banged by pvp'rs hehe

 

I have.

 

Perfect example of the personality difference between a PvPer and a PvEer. You say you are PvE only... I believe it, because PvP people are competitve types that are never satisfied with being second best. They refuse to believe they were beaten so they get better and go back for more.

I'm not saying PvP people are better people than PvE people, but they are more competitive. Is a competitive nature good or evil??? I don't know and don't care. We are who we are.

 

I accept the fact that 18-22 year olds will run circles around me. There's simply no comparison. I have to use a lot more strategy against those with faster reflexes....I'm not going to win a dual in the open field.

 

Maybe not. If they don't make this game like a fast twitch fighting game, and the pace of combat is developed right, then fast reflexes might not be required.

However, timing really doesn't require fast reflexes. Timing allows you to execute moves when you need them. It is different than having to react quickly over and over again. So if they develop it so that the pace of combat isn't hectic, and fast, then we should be fine.

 

1) I've never said I was PvE only. You've decided that I'm PvP only even after a lengthy reply from me on the subject which you've chosen to ignore.
2) There is no shame in admitting someone is better at something than you are... If you don't admit that there is likely someone better than you at any given pursuit, you're simply bad at math.
3) Realizing that there is most probably someone better than you at any given pursuit you might take up does not make one less competitive, it merely means you have a realistic world view, and should serve as an inspiration to get better.
4) Refusing to admit defeat in the face of prima facia evidence to the contrary is delusional.
5) Seeking excuses for it is hubris. If you truly wish to improve, look first at yourself, not your tools, fate, other external causes. In fact, I expect developers who work for me to assume that every flaw reported is their fault and there code and look to their own work first and be able to demonstrate that it's not their problem. I've fired people for "That's not possible, it CAN'T be *my* code!" I loath prima donnas.