PVP & Death: Current Thinking Megapost

@Gunga Din

I don't think we're looking at it in the same manner and it goes back to the same round and round argument. From what I understand, you want to create exclusivity thinking that somehow PVP players will suddenly be appeased by PVP rewards or titles exclusive to the zone and vice versa with PVE. Maybe some PVPrs would like that or others may want word of mouth reputation or others to join them in sharing the wealth/bolstering their numbers or creating rivalry with other groups/players. To me it seems like PVP is in itself its own reward and doesn't need the fluff of dyes or pets, etc.. A sensible and fair looting mechanic that can approach full loot but not necessarily be full loot can help sustain that gameplay. Like it or not, PVP is social play.

I look at it like this: mundane items and magic items (by my model) can be used by both PVErs and PVP'rs. Even if magic items crafted by resources in PVP islands happens to be equivalent to "mundane items plus" (which may very well be slightly overpowered), it creates an opportunity for PVErs to enter into those PVP islands and compete. Even if a PVE crafter or player never wants to enter a PVP zone to gather those resources, there will still be people hauling stuff in (resources and/or recipes) to sell in the local shops for higher prices than the stuff found in PVE, thus that chunk of magical ore used to fashion or enhance a mundane item will be available but the risk taken to acquire that resource gets figured into the price (e.g. a magic bow costs 10000 gp compared to a bow for 1000 gp). The PVP crafter (or the crafter willing to risk going into those zones in order to craft magic items) deals with the gameplay with eyes wide open because his/her eyes are on making profit by cutting out the middleman. If there are roving bands of players waiting to ambush that crafter, then the crafter had better bring along friends (and fight alongside them), join a guild or cut a deal with those bandits. That pretty much supports a community rather than dividing it.

Even if the most antisocial PVPr is out there wreaking hell and living in PVP land, then at least that player will have a chance to outfit him/herself with PVP-won loot provided there is a choice to the pickings of limited looting ( 1 weapon or 1 armor piece plus all jewelry, gold, consumables, etc). If there's the timer mini-game, then all the better. I think that's fair to that player because that player is willing to play as a violent scavenger.

PVP players also will have to come to town or their dwelling at some point to craft/repair or have their items crafted/repaired for them. Whether they go back to PVP zones or play in the PVE world really doesn't matter, thus there doesn't need to be exclusivity of PVE items either; PVE access is as available as PVP access.

Of course, the gameplay doesn't have to be different in PVE. If you get stomped by a monster that would steal your stuff, then I think the same sort of player looting should occur i.e. steal your rings/amulets, gold, potions, food, wands/staves, a piece of armor or weapon, and damage the rest of your stuff. That way, it's the same set of rules and doesn't require any exclusivity of items. The only difference is that the enhancement to your items is found in PVP areas and are contested by other players instead of monsters because of the efficacious results that are derived from those resources and their end products. Also, if those items really are potent and people want to defend themselves or attack others better, they will carry those items with them wherever they go. That creates a balance between skill and gear and emphasizes risk vs. reward.

Also, let's not forget SP offline, SPO, and FPO folks either. If the same gameplay and looting occurs with PVE monsters, then those folks will be subjected to similar risk as in OPO but with limited availability of those resources in the world except maybe through what's being channeled through player vendors (with the obvious exception of SP offline).

I really do think that would tie it all together without having to create unnecessary fluff items or titles or gear and still support both camps without separating them.

 

It should be a hard miserable life if you're a full out PVP player that loots, the cities you have to go to would be literally impossible unless you had some sort of friend do pickups/deliveries for you,
they'd have to take over and entire city for themselves and live amongst each other..so they'd be paranoid 24/7 by bigger groups or guilds that might reside there - it just should be Dark souls level
hard lol, like Hardcore mode diablo when you die you die and everything is gone when you comitte to that life..a tainted name along with it, items tax ten times higher for you..

so much can be done

 

So then play that mode? Why have them screw over pvpers because someones friends might not join their mode?

Thhey are screwing with pvp to make it more appealing to pvers yet would they ever mess with pve to make it more desirable to pvpers? No. That is an example of a hipocrite and favortism. Geez i wish theyd make pve easier and give me better pvp loot.

 

OPO is not just about PvP, might as well tell people to play offline mode.

 

What part is messed up? The consent part? You knew from the very start that this will be a consensual PvP game, you set yourself up for a fall.

 

I liked most of things but I still miss that hardcore full loot.. how about a HARDCORE server wich just copies the skill from the main server but not the itens? I dont know the actual practice of it but theorical it sounds fun

 

Like i waid they said everything was subject to change so no, i didnt. As far is am concerned choosing the mutliplayer mode is consent. Its a single player game with a dribble of multiplayer afterall. Its all good you can habe your ultima in name only oh wait its not even that. Be LBs personal checkbook i can find another game with cajones

 

People who complain about concent in PvP are just trying to grief and harass non-pvpers, it's a non-desuptable fact, and it get's boring to see the same non-arguments over and over and over and over and over.

A very tiny part of this community want to see Open PvP and full loot, and thankfully it will not going to happen, because it will kill the game.

I Will ask once again, until someone come up with a good reply:

Ultima Online HAS a hardcore server ( Siege ) , how come it's been completely dead for many years , even though some other servers are full of people?
Get rid of your nostalgica and biased glasses, we want this game to survive more than 3 months.

 

• Blessings of the Oracle (Open PVP): Sounds good
• Guilds (Warfare and Open PVP): ok
• PVP Zones: good
• Duels: good
• PVP Level & Skills: good
• Loot & Ransoms: Interesting!

• Grouping: good
• Trophies: very nice
• Leaderboards, Ranking, Ladders: ok, some people really like stuff like that.

• Why no full loot? I dont agree that people only will wear junk stuff. Eve Online shows that this is not the case.
• Why a ghost? Sound good, not sure if its a good idea to be able to trap ghosts though
• Cost of Death? good

I am quite happy with what solutions the SotA team came up and look forward to try them out.

 

And we PVP would hunt them down and kill them!

 

well he did say things in PVE world only, us as PVP would have to go in to get it, its the same to me, stuff in PVP and stuff in PVE that's is quite fair, It will aslo give a chance for PVP to mingle with PVE, and Vice Versus, maybye a PVP and PKr gets to know someone and then says well that guy/girl is my friend so i wont gank them! Or the Pkr may Pk someone that does Pk the friend that's in PVE mostly. I think it could work out with benefits to both sides. Pkrs also have dieing and losing their stuff as much as any of us!

 

Will there be any sort of Gods in the game? There is spirituality in the game, and when talking about death costs and working your debt, I can really imagine Death as a spiritualistic entity to whom you owe the debt. Alternatively it would be awesome if you could use the gods much like virtues, where you pledge allegiance to a certain God and it would be to that God you would be indebted. That would work well with shrines and different play styles, and giving bonuses and disadvantages.

 

Nobody is forcing anyone to do anything you either slide the slider to pve or pvp, but whatever you choose is your choosing! Whats going to make me want to come to PVE? find something to entice us as well (special inredient etc...) but it is all choice, theres a difference between NEED, and WANT. We shouldnt NEED anything from the others side only!

 

But if he is not a crafter and doesnt make money that way why not sell your item? the price could also be regulated by the game only worth a certain amount, again i see alot of people not factoring in that we will be in PVP doing the same quests (story line) as you, and getting out gold from that as well! The only difference is we can be attacked by monsters and other players! PVE will only have to worry about monsters.

 

Says the same group of people that tells the PvPers to "go play UO." Seriously, I really think the proposed is an unfair compromise. The PvP system is so watered down that it seems like a waste to even try it. I would love to go into a meteor strike zone, get some resources/rare monster drops. If I got out without dying even once I would really feel like I got away with something. If I happened to run across Owain (who was acting against my characters core values or just politely challenged me and I managed to beat him, I hope the loot system is at least a little more like something Ristra proposed earlier because I think I'd want an incentive to hurry up and run home or to a bank because I wouldn't want to risk losing the stuff I got from Owain.
Yes the possibility of beating someone who takes PvP combat as seriously diligent about PvP would be quite a reward but that isn't quite worth taking the risk of being turned into a fine red mist. If the other player is just some individual try to rob me, let me be the hero of my own story and be able to beat him down and take his stuff. PvP can also be a teaching moment, you know?

PS: I still hope death debuffs and XP debt are stiff enough penalties to make me want to be careful even from PvE monsters.

 

Me

 

And there are other games out there probably better for the PVP person than this one, be patient! It will come!

 

Well im guessing even as a PVP'r im going to have to buy stuff, fixing or making better my armor or weapon, maby ill need to buy some regs? or maby i want a full plate outifit that i cannot make myself! those are a few i could come up right off the top of my head! so there you go we are putting money into the system!

 

Well we need gear too and well need to fix it when it gets worn! some of us may be miners/fighters so we would be doing the basic just like PVE the only separation between the 2 styles is we can attack each other! We wont be able to attack you the PVE unless you flag for PVP, i dont understand what you all are worried about???? explain more to me on that!

 

Yes, I think you did set yourself up.

It's easy to say, "everything is subject to change", and then convince yourself that because it's subject to change, it's going to change the way you want it to change, even though the change you want goes against every statement ever released by Portalarium about the basic game design.

It's one thing to be optimistic, but it's another thing entirely to be delusional.

I would prefer full loot myself, but it was always a long shot, and with the release of this information from the devs, it's clear that it's a shot that is never going to hit target. Some people convinced themselves that full loot HAD to be in the game, and even ran dubious polls to 'prove' to themselves support that doesn't really exist. Multiple people tried to warn them that given what the devs have been telling us since the start of the Kickstarter, Full Loot was probably a non-starter.

Now that the devs have announced exactly what they intend, and that their intentions in no way include full loot, I think it's time to give it up, but that probably won't happen. What started out as an exercise in futility has for some people turned into a full time career in futility. The rest of us will just shake our heads and look on in disbelief, but I really doubt that any further complaints about the PvP design will accomplish anything.

Your time is your own to waste. Have at it.