PVP & Death: Current Thinking Megapost

I certainly hope I'm not one who's grouped all PvPers into those negative stereotypes. However, you must also agree that there are people who have given the playstyle a very very bad name. I'll also say that it doesn't take too many of such people to ruin the experience for a whole lot of people.

Ignoring whether it's murder or not, it does take away some/a lot of freedom from other players. Killing someone, especially when taking away items, does, for many people, make it a bad experience. I get that some people really like such an environment, and I hope they are able to provide it for those who seek it, but many people do not like that context and feel that the looting essentially encourages killing.
I can say in PvP WoW servers you lost nothing, and PvP still was a negative experience for many many people - and again, I think it was a relatively few people causing a lot of negativity.

 

Notice how I wrote: "A Murderer are someone killing innocent."? Innocent have nothing to do with NPC or PC. You can be a murderer even if you dont join PvP, if you join consensual PvP you are not a murderer but you are a killer.

 

This was a very good argument. It was done without the harsh stereotypical jabs, but its not the kind of argument that has other players shaking in their boots and hating all PvPers either.

Thank you for that.

If you would supplement killing with winning or beating now please

 

How about "causing status to be temporarily be changed to 'dead' "

 

I disagree. I believe this was an illustration that there is a subset of people that will not compromise. It is not saying that all are like this, only that they wish to demand full loot.

-Since some are screaming full loot-, not all, then steps into a ruff outline of the direction for the system.

 

I think that a more apt descriptor would be "Time Thief" because I think that lies at the heart of the debate over open PVP and Full Loot vs. what's being proposed. Granted, playing any game could be considered a waste of time, but what it seems pure PVErs are bristling against is not whether they get killed or whether they lost an item or all items but the time stolen from them in their play while gathering items for crafting , progressing through the storyline, adventuring in a dungeon or taking part in some social event. I really think that's the crux of the issue and having it imposed upon an unwilling participant chases away the one that the PVPr wants to play with him/her in a contentious way.

The roaming PVPr who doesn't partake in PVE content is essentially saying," There is no spoon PVE content; there is you and me and us or them. Period. Let us spend our time playing this game: hide-and-seek, cops and robbers, cowboys and Indians, reds and blues, or whatever you want to call it." I really do think that's what PVPrs want -- to have people to play with rather than chase people off. I think there's a very small subset that does want to ruin people's fun and chase people off, but those people should not be the determinant of the limits being proscribed nor can those that never want a second of their time "wasted" while they play.

If both sides are mindful of each others' needs, then I think compromise is possible and I think more than 5% of the world could open up for PVP but there has to be a way to make PVP rewarding without having its victims feel their time is wasted and the victors feeling their efforts for choosing challenge and unpredictable play goes unrewarded or gives arbitrary rewards without choice.

 

Can't believe people are comparing this to League of Legends, it's a COMPLETELY different style of game. It would be the equivalent of us telling the PvE community to go play tetris.


Also to the people who are telling us this isn't the new Ultima Online or a sandbox game, please check this.
http://i.imgur.com/e5BgsFm.png
as seen below
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/view/videos/gameID/935/videoId/3468

 

Spiritual successor to UO? Or just pre Tram UO?

 

No one is asking for pre tram UO, they have stated that you can avoid PvP at all times. This thread is for the people who have CHOSEN to PvP, so let the PvPers decide?

If you are one of those people who doesn't partake in any sort of player vs player combat, don't even talk about it. They hear what you want and it ruins it for the people who actually do it.

 

We also have to keep in mind that this is still the Devs' dilemma, consensual play or not. Though I do wonder which one of the Devs is playing Ann Margaret. My bet's on Chris.

 

I'm almost to the point of advocating a non-consensual PvP and full loot option at character creation that cannot be undone. Players would filter strictly into non-PvP enabled or PvP enabled hexes. Even though this would cause many issues if differently flagged players could vendor or trade in towns (two economies merging).

Oh I'm sorry, I meant to say FULL LOOT OR GTFO!!!!

 

Sorry, I had a rush at work. I lost the thread of discusion.

Have we got news about CONSENSUAL FULL LOOT ?

 

You have not read all the posts in this thread then.

So you are saying that PvPers that never plan on PvEing should no even talk about it? PvE affects PvP and the same can be said for PvP affecting PvE. Depending on how the game is designed of course. Talking about both sides now is part of the discussion.

 

That's exactly what I'm saying. If people have NO desire to PvP even if they put in incentives to go into the zone why should they be commenting about it?

 

WoW world pvp hasn't been a thing since 60, and it's not fun because if u kill someone all you do is take 20 seconds of their time.

If you could take their items I would still be playing.

 

This thread reminds me of whack-a-mole.

 

So your concern/issue is that when you kill someone, they aren't harmed/penalized enough, and you don't get anything tangible for it?

 

My concern is there is an element of thrill to taking peoples gear, removing that puts it just like every other game. I'll give you a few examples..

1) You run into a few people one of them looks to be decked with good gear the others not as much, with full loot you know exactly who you're targeting and who you want to kill. Do you think it matters if they don't lose anything?
2) IN UO once you kill someone, you would take their weapon or one of their regs to stop them from ressing and having the ability to fight back if you didn't have time to completely loot them of course.
3) The good old days where groups of 10 would farm together to try and avoid being pked, and you and one other would try 2v10 them.. You remove the risk of losing your **** and the fear of being killed with insurance + stupid bounty systems where they will ALWAYS buy the stuff back if its anything good.

I don't see the problem of full loot? There is complete sanctuary for people to farm without risk of dieing, this means the PvE community is getting exactly what they want.. If they CHOOSE to head in the dangerous zones why shouldn't it be dangerous for them? Why shouldn't they get have the risk of losing all their stuff? They certainly didn't NEED to go there.

 

That was my question, "your concern/issue is that when you kill someone, they aren't harmed/penalized enough, and you don't get anything tangible for it?", and your answer was yes. I just wanted ot make sure I understood.

 

Story driven game, why we PvP has not been detailed yet. Open PvP is part of the sandbox that they do not want to take away. They just don't want the most dominate sandbox system (PvP) to overrun the story driven nature of the game.

This was not an issue in UO, it did not have a story. Open PvP only overrun player made content. (anyone else in the sandbox)