PVP - The solution is in front of us

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Antrax Artek, Dec 4, 2019.

  1. Antrax Artek

    Antrax Artek Avatar

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    Hello everyone, yeah that's another post from Antrax about the current PVP situation in game.
    It seems that indeed no ransoms has led many to venture into PVP areas and fight, I have seen people who had never done it and had no intention of doing PVP rediscover themselves excellent PVPers.

    Is it really the absence of ransoms to have improved the situation so much?
    Yes and No, I will go into detail in explaining why.

    After several chats with the players involved lately it seems that in addition to the no ransoms period what really drove many to fight is the Tartarus PVP Maze, why? Because finally a PVP map worthy of this label is present in the game, highly challenging and at the same time justly rewarding and that encourages group play.

    I've been talking about it for a long time, but I hope that now with data in hand @Chris takes care of polishing the various pvp areas asap for loots, xp and spawners making them appealing and worth to be visited and farmed by parties of players.

    I'm not talking about adding rewards for free cause pvpers are cool but to dramatically increase the difficulty and consequently the rewards in PVP zones just like in the PVP Tartarus maze, to encourage group play and competition.

    It's interesting the fact that almost all the pvp fights happened in PVP zones and not in towns or safe zones, this says a lot about the direction to take.

    I have to admit I hadn't spent so much time on SotA from years, and a lot of friends came back to play.

    PS: For anyone who needs help to set up their character for PVP feel free to contact me on discord (Antrax # 1555) or in game (Antrax Artek)
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2019
  2. rebbieforever

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    Well, having played EVE and other games people dont get easily into PVP unless they are "seasoned" PVPers that done it in many other games. Most start as pure PVE players and slowly cross the line into PVP if there are incentives, if they can bear possible losses(if they exist) and if the game gives them enough feedback etc on how to get better as none wants to always lose. There should be a PVP tutorial maybe.


    As for the ransom I know for a fact a friend and guildmate lost her high value pet on a no ransom area cause if someone gets killed long enough to pass the revive timer pet is lost. That already gives all people a reason to ignore PVP and avoid it since no ransom doesnt solve that.
     
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  3. Antrax Artek

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    The loss of the pet is something that can happen even in a safe zone, if it dies and you don't resurrect it. I would like you to explain this to the person concerned, there is no correlation between PVP and what happened.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2019
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  4. rebbieforever

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    Its one thing avoiding mobs with an AI to ressurect a Pet and another to try ressurect a pet when someone is seeking you to kill on repeat.

    As for your suggestions on PVP yes I do believe there should be some PVP orientated maps with incentive(bosses with good potential drops like the champions on UO pvp map? special material nodes that are used to produce pet equipment or to enhance-strengthen equipment? there are many avenues), plus higher exp to represent risk towards reward
     
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  5. Sara Dreygon

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    Yup :)
     
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  6. Restless

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    Yes!! I'd be ok with losing pvp loot once the zones are worth going to. Tart PVP maze is currently very lacking just like all other open pvp zones.
     
  7. Cirsee

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    Glad you guys are having fun in PvP and finally got something you find worth of your effort; you needed some love. Now for the PVE reminder that I think that its great you for you guys, but lets not go nuts and take all the PVE benefit stuff and put it in PVP only zones. I know you guys call it risk versus reward, but I call it passive aggressive forcing me to go into a zone with a playstyle I don't like to be able to obtain the thing I need to fight in an area I prefer. If you have to entice me to venture into your slaughter area with gear to use my pet better; then it really isn't PVP that is making me want to go there.

    And now I will stay quite and let you all have fun in your PVP glory.
     
  8. FrostII

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    Amen to that...........I couldn't have said it better, so thx @Cirsee .
     
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  9. Alleine Dragonfyre

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    Ransoms have been the main reason I don't PvP.
     
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  10. Adam Crow

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    The problem is there is almost no reason to go to any of the pvp zones. The pve players have plenty of places to go with 0 risk and great rewards.

    If you want the game to thrive making the PvP zones viable places to pve will help all of us. It will bring in more players, more revenue and keep the lights on.

    They don't need to add exclusive items to these zones. Just make them equal to some of the other top end pve zones. As of right now there is pretty much zero reason to go to them. Which destroys my playstyle completely. I like to pve with the risk of pvp and I enjoy both pretty much equally. It won't effect players that only want to pve at all to buff up the xp and loot in those pvp zones. You can still go to the other pve zones to level, and the players that enjoy fighting each other can go to the PvP zones. Everyone can be happy.
     
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  11. FrostII

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    Without ransoms most PvP'rs will lose interest.... Like it's always been.

    It is very difficult to "balance" - skills/dmg/etc. - between PvP and PvE and make it fair so neither takes offense.

    I know a bunch of peeps that would enjoy arena PvP fights (and take part)........... but without big looting rights, most PvP'rs will not be happy..........
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2019
  12. FrostII

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    If you PvP'rs want to be recognized.... then there's no better way to do it than Arena fights.

    Most all (PvP/PvE) would enjoy watching - (in a large Arena) - you use your skills against each other, and applaud both the winner and the loser...

    We've already got a PvP Leader Board and could expand that to include Arena fights as a Leader Board in itself.

    PvP to me is Person vs Person, and not so much ganking..... Ganking pretty much disgusts we PvE'rs, and is the primary reason we don't participate.

    U want us to PvP ?

    Make it all Arena Fights with zero loot and give the winners titles.... Like "Badass of the Week" or whatever.... That would bring us over...

    Till then, cya........
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2019
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  13. oplek

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    I've been brewing an articulation about PVP vs. PVE, in terms of the "idea opponent".

    I'm mostly inferring here, but the PVPer's idea opponent is (if we're talking 1v1 mostly):
    • Adaptive
    • Has some unpredictability
    • And for a non-trivial slice of the pie, an actual person who can be pushed around just to show that person who is boss
    • And in some contexts, has a lot of good stuff
    For myself, the ideal opponent is:
    • Mostly evenly matched with myself
    • I don't have to work hard to find an even-matched opponent
    • Is interesting to fight
    • Doesn't sh*t talk, and it doesn't turn into a pissing match, and isn't toxic.
      I.e. good sportsmanship - something that's near-extinct in online multiplayer
    • Doesn't invoke performance anxiety in myself
    • Drops good stuff
    Yeah, PVE/NPCs are kind of predictable and non-adaptive, but it's the tradeoff for the other things. So PVE it is.

    When they announced the no-ransom December, I was uninterested. I've actually found the PVP-loss in this game to be extremely tame. The last time I flagged-up, I was in a city. I needed to AFK for 15 minutes, and went and hid in a building. I came back and found myself dead, with someone standing over my AFK corpse. I immediately de-flagged, and haven't gone back. I didn't de-flag because I lost some junk item. I de-flagged because I was AFK-killed. That told me what I needed to know about the caliber of people I was up against.
     
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  14. oplek

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    And before anyone says it, yes, not everyone is a jerk in PVP. But it's a recurring complaint. We'd also have problems with player retention if, when you're trying to decorate your house, suddenly a dragon comes out of nowhere and 1-shots you and starts spawn-camping you. People appreciate fairness.
     
  15. Adam Crow

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    No we don't.

    We want a place to pvp. The goal is not to make players who have zero interest in pvp fight or watch. That won't help bring in players. It might be a neat thing to add later after the PvP zones are fixed tho.

    The goal is to give the players who enjoy both pve and pvp an actual place to engage. Arena fights is not the answer at all. The players still playing this game that pvp obviously have some interest in pve because you have to do that to become skilled in pvp.

    Once the zones are fixed and we have some active pvp going on constantly, our numbers will rise. There is a huge number of players that are into this sort of thing, it's similar to how eve online works. That game was extremely active for all types of players for years.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2019
  16. Sulaene Moon

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    What's wrong with the zones that need to be fixed???
     
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  17. Adam Crow

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    They don't provide enough experience or loot when compared to the other pve zones players go to. There is no reason to go to them currently unless you seek out a specific artifact like in the fall. That's a horrible design.

    If they were just on an similar level to UT, Tartarus, Despair etc - players would go there to both pve and pvp. They don't need to be better than those zones, just comparable.
     
  18. Sulaene Moon

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    Ahh, that's true. You're right they should at the least be comparable. Good point.
     
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  19. Violet Ronso

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    Player ran arena fights already exist, this is not solving the issue most people have with PvP... My main gripe with it is that I have 0 incentive to do it, there is no risk vs reward in pvp, there is risk vs junk, for multiple reasons :

    1. Ransoms arent that great, you get 3x the game value of an item, so at most 7.5k, if you roll the lottery and fall on a good number (meanwhile in PvE you got a huge amount of lottery numbers that give you thousands more).

    2. I hate Item ransoms, I mean I spend hours upon hours either making gear or grinding to buy it, and then I risk it to reveive 1% or less of its value back in return. I would like to risk something else with value.

    3. PvP zones have NOTHING to offer... In a PvE adventuring scene, people can manage 2m exp in 20 minutes or less, and can average 40k+ per hour selling weapons but not consumables nor artifacts. Now maybe the new Tartarus maze can offer something similar or close, but it is the only place, and it is super high tier... Have you ever played in a Shardfall? They sprinkled a mob here and there, it gives crap loot (and by crap loot I mean the same **** as a tier 3 zone), but it has a nice scenery, that's it... give us similar exp rates and loot to be worth of, give us more spawns to be able to constantly grind. I want something special if I am risking it.

    4. Not everyone wants 1v1/2v2 planned fights. My favorite pvp experiences of all time were fights where I got ambushed, and had to turn it around. Me and 2 IRL friends were ESO junkies (until I sold my xbox)... we would play in the imperial sewers, farming special currency and special keys only obtainable there, which we risked on death, and from time to time, we would get ambushed, or we would ambush others. Sure, a well planned ambush against an average group or person resulted in an easy win, but ohh how many times did someone ambush us only to get wiped, or vice versa, and that was so much fun, you add in thrill, rewards, and risk, all into 1 zone that is optional, and my god do you have a please PvP crowd.

    The pvpers who want arenas can organise those arenas just fine, its the people who want to have the thrill while playing in PvP specific scenes that can't get what they want ...

    And no, we don't want to see PvEers going in PvP zones if they arent wanting to, nor planned around it, because many of those will fight worse than an npc, and honestly the fun is out when that happens (unless you come back and attack me back, then I might enjoy giving you another fall, but Ill admire your courage and offer you some help) what we want is a reason to hunt each other, with a real gain.

    Now obviously I dont speak for all, but I tend to think I speak for many...
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2019
  20. Lesni

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    I don't do much PVP so take this for what you paid to read it.
    (This is just my opinion and is not an attack on any person.)

    In the EVL tournaments, there are 'CONTROLS'...
    No looting, Rules, Regulation, Penalties for breaking the rules.
    I have participated in a few of these but my skill at PVP sucks so I stopped.

    In open PVP there is NOTHING.
    No laws or rules just wild wild west behavior.
    NO CONTROL / RULES

    To be successful at PVP I would need to have a much higher adventure level but once I got it, the high level PVPers will be higher and have more skills than I could ever train. So why bother.

    That still does not limit me (or anyone else) having fun with PVP.

    The better loot is not a big deal for me since I don't play for loot.
    (XP is nice though and I've heard I get more if flagged)


    I like the no loot PVP experiment but also realize it is just that... an experiment.
    But even with that there are still no controls or rules with penalties.

    IRL if I break the rules I am penalized, in Novia that does not happen.

    I would not have a problem with PVP if when someone breaks the rules they face a punishment.
    (jail --- time-out --- temp ban --- etc)
    I've witnessed and been a part of when a flagged person is killed, then goes to the ankh only to be killed over and over and over again by the attackers camping at the ankh.
    (This type of behavior should be punished.)
    This has even been happening during this no loot experiment.
    Why?

    This type of action shows very poor sportsmanship and results in the lawless pvp areas.
    If the only way you can beat someone is to gank them at the ankh then you are not a pvper you are an outlaw and should be treated as such in the game.

    The non-pvpers and low adv level pvpers have decided to stay out of those lawless areas.
    If they had a chance at winning when flagged, I think it would allow more people to try pvp.

    If low loot levels in PVP is really the issue, then that could be easily resolved by developers.
    I really doubt that is the reason more people don't PVP.

    (Lesni casts healing rain, and shield of crystal for the onslaught attacks that will surely come because of this post)
     
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