R11 Level Griding

I absolutley hate grinding. It is the worst part of games and I don't want to play games where I have to grind in order to advance. A game needs a good flow in which you can advance in a natural way as you go along. If I am ripped out of this flow because I can't continue my quest until I have gained a certain level and have to grind in order to get to it, then this is bad game design - sorry. Ripping me ot of the flow of the game is not what I consider fun.

 

Right, and I'm not sure what I'm testing anymore if most of my time in Alpha I'm just standing around killing the same things over and over again so I can get competitive for pvp, and pve soloing. (I assume that R12 will begin Alpha, btw, since it's persistent)

If it's fun for some people, that's fine. But I don't think I'm likely to find more bugs after playing whack a mole for 3 hours.

 

I would have no problem with grinding if I was learning how to use the deck system more effectively by doing so. I think that's one way to sell it - fight an elf, see what happened and then try a slightly different set-up with another elf. I think there's a lot of potential to experiment with different set ups and combos. This is coming from a player who generally does not get into the fine details of combat!

However, what I was wanting was more guidance. Something to help me figure out and gain real experience on what kind of decks I wanted to build. With minimal tools right now to figure it out and having to consult a lot of anecdotal evidence... it feels very difficult.

 

I don't want to kill to advance, I want to adventure, grab loads of materials, the weight will make me stronger although I'll have to walk everywhere not run. This I would like. Maybe.
Then craft till my craftiness peaks, yeah

 

It took me a good hour or so to get comfortable with each deck that I created. Like most games, the current build is all about min/maxing everything. There's no reason to say "I don't want to be a 25% resistant, I want to be only 5% resistant!" Which is why the deck system in the current mold is a bit silly in that regard. There's just not enough variety and the system itself is very unbalanced. So you end up "making an archer" for example, and you quickly find out that archers are horrible. So you make a mage and find out that they're better than archers but not by much. Then you make a fighter and say WOW, this is like the greatest thing ever! Then you start to experiment on that fighter build, throwing in a little magic and the next thing you know you're just like everyone else, a tank mage.

That's about 30 hours of playing experience I just saved you, free of charge.

 

Grinding is tedious so i thank you for the advise and your posts. I have enough of a grind at work, i want to relax and have fun in a game, not grind.

 

I think I get what you are saying. Wipe the gear, housing etc, but let you start at 35 with all the skill points so you can continue testing the higher end content? What about gear? You would have lo grind to get gear too, or are you asking to start with level appropriate gear? There is certainly value in testing high end content. That often goes lacking as evidenced in other mmo's.

 

Gear, housing, take it all...but don't make level.

I figure that the internal development team doesn't have to level all day, so why should we? I don't think it tests anything. We still have reasons to goto "low level" areas to get things like wolf pelts and cotton. So what are we testing by being level 1 vs. level 35?

Plus, there are going to be new people that come into the game that can help test level progression on new passes of development. So it makes sense to me that if you grind once, you shouldn't have to do it again.

 

I dislike lots of things about Archeage, but they did one thing right. Just about everything gives Experience points. You can grind to level cap in AA with just crafting if you want to do so. That would be a cool concept for SOTA.

 

The thing for me remains testing the game. I found out (for example) that plate is way over done in it's current form. With little or no skill, I could don a full plate suit and wade chin deep into a dozen mobs without fear. Add a nice shield and I could practically fall asleep fighting and not worry. Now, had I started at level 30, I might not have really thought it was a problem and expect that kind of behavior given my stats, level and skills (in addition to the silly plate armor).

Does this mean plate needs a level restriction? Eww...hope not but something needs to be balanced about it.

Point is, this is part of the "pain" that we've signed up for and again with the upcoming persistent world (I would still expect wipes at times) this should be less of a deal. My concern is that none of this seems very balanced and the Devs won't have a "start from scratch" player base anymore...not sure they are ready to turn on a persistent world. (rambling, sorry...)

 

Seir,

I'm level 35, and I didn't have the ability to go through dungeons like that UNTIL I put on plate armor. Then it was obvious that I was playing a "different game". The world opened up to me and I could effectively go anyway and kill anything (outside of a well protected Lich) all while being solo.

Sure, platemail needs balanced, but we could've figured that out regardless of levels. So why spend all that time leveling when we could be figuring stuff like that out?

 

I actually get kind of frustrated with housing wipes myself haha...I want to decorate, but then I think...what's the point...Just gonna have to start all over again...

 

I do that too. I spent time getting a lot, then quickly said "what's the point of this?" and sold it.

I can't wait for lot selection day.

 

Take that frustration & figure out how many items per recipe are crafted for the new recipes, yeah that's a good idea,

 

Oh yes, though I'd certainly like to see pack behavior by wolves, instead of having nearby wolves sit by until you get close enough. This would make many wolves in a close location a challenge, moreso than a lone wolf.

Even for elves, skeletons, etc., they should be a little more aware of what's happening than they are. There's a range at which they become aware of things currently. But if a friend right next to them runs off to attack you the other one remains oblivious, even if its an archer or mage and can hit you from a distance. For fighters, some should obviously stay to guard the location in case you're laying a trap. I'd like to see intelligent mob behavior. Visual distance and audibility should matter too, not just proximity.

"Picking off" tactics of fighting one enemy at a time should work in many cases, but only through skilled player maneuvers. This is what a rogue character would be best at. Sneaking around, laying a distraction to attract one enemy at the right time, and silently backstabbing him. It shouldn't be normal combat, though, if the mobs are close to each other ... only if they've separated themselves, making it easy for you. Close to each other, it should be really hard.

 

LOL, you think this is bad level grinding? Ppl made level 51 in 4 days.

Just wait till it launches and going from level 20->21 will take hours.

This is certainly not a grind, but I agree, it is boring as heck!

 

I think any level grinding is bad actually. But no, I understand that this is nothing like what other games are like, and nothing like what this game will be at launch.

I'll swallow that pill when I need to (at launch) but there's no reason to do that now. I don't need to TEST boring.

 

Welcome to Testing, everyone. It is a necessary evil to retest (e.g. starting over) many times as underlying systems change. There are many aspects to this game. Take a break from the level grind (combat) and go adventuring. Get a house, decorate it. Participate in some maze events -- even help build one! Bask in the godrays under some peaceful forest canopy. Then maybe try some more combat if you're up to it.

All I can say is: You gotta feel for James, the only dedicated tester, who has to do this day in, day out. Testing progression and balancing it is a grind and that will never change.

 

I'll bet James is NOT level grinding. I'll bet James enters in what level he wants to be and it is so. There's no way that internally James starts from square one unless he's specifically testing something where he needs to test from square one. It would be a complete waste of time for James (as it is for us).

With the skill system, if we wanted to test square one, we could just not use as many skill points. I know there are many moving (and changing) parts to this process, but can anyone name me a single reason why we have to put in hours of standing around whacking AI over the head? I can't think of a single reason other than "that's how it always works in these games".

 

....so think about that for a second. If he's not retesting progression from ground zero after rebalancing work has been done, who do you think is?

And if it's not us, wouldn't you be worried that nobody is?

Repetitive testing is the bane of every tester out there, which is why they seek to automate so much of it. And I really doubt they have that in place. I'm not suggesting that James is level grinding from 0 to 50 every day, but I'd be surprised if he's not testing progression in some way vs. always setting in some level/xp/skill points on his character. Which I'm sure he does when he's not testing progression. But I think we're getting too narrow on my commentary about the daily grind of manual testing, be it combat, decorations, quests, conversations, UI, etc, etc, etc.