R29 patch 410 holding down mouse button "fix"

Edit - this matter has been addressed by Chris - a bug not a feature. Please see below for his reply.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wow did I have high hopes reading this one...
R29 Build Number 410 9:00 AM: "Fix for holding down the mouse button after releasing a charged attack"

Alas, it was NOT the "from now on, be free of constant button pressing" thing that I've been so eagerly waiting for.

It was the "from now on, do an additional release-and-press after every glyph attack" thing. The sorest disappointment in my SotA existence so far - enough to write this down. A classic "WTH were they thinking?" moment.

So, devs, what were you thinking? Apparently your assessment is, that the relative unpopularity of the free/charged attack would have nothing to do with chronic "holding down the mouse button". No, in fact, let's make it even more unwieldy, let's implement more mindless micro-games to it. Yeah, that's the ticket. Way to go.

Not that many people would even notice. Why, not that many players probably even know what a "fingertip grip" is, let alone use it, along with a side button arrangement, as an effective RSI preventive measure. So that's a small price to pay for - what exactly?

Here's the thing for those interested: fingertip grip is a delicate thing. Far more sensitive than the "usual" claw or palm grips (which are more typically used with a 400dpi or so setting), fingertip grip calls for 1800-ish dpi setting. The mouse is basically held and moved only using thumb along with two or three fingers (the wrist is completely still, it plays no role in movement), buttons are operated with index and middle fingers.

Now, pressing and holding down any of the top buttons (left,middle,right) places considerable strain to the hand (eventually causing RSI). Those buttons are not intended to be held down, ergonomically speaking, in any case. This is true even with the more common grips, but holding down these buttons with a fingertip grip exacerbates the strain considerably, often enough to render continued pressing down of top buttons practically impossible.

Enter side buttons, a common tweak among gaming mice. You can press and hold down a side button without fear of RSI, because it is operated with a strong thumb. Especially with fingertip grip, you squeeze the mouse with your thumb anyway. Because of high DPI, it's quite delicate however: every additional releasing and depressing a side button adjusts the mouse grip itself, causing random unintended high-dpi mouse movements.

So, now this new exciting micro-game makes fingertip grip users adjust the grip in the middle of battle, not only with every free shot, but additionally with every glyph. Good job.

One could most likely work around it using some kind of keyboard macro keybindings. Those less technically savvy (or those thinking that the use of macros even to avoid RSI is unethical/illegitimate) might not be as lucky. Heck, personally I could probably even "just get used to it", technically speaking, it's not that. It's the attitude, the blatant neglect of ergonomics that bothers me here.

The silver lining -- I actually thought of trying to adjust to the free attack chronic button pressing (as it was originally implemented), by making a lower profile side button (my mouse allows 3d-printing of custom side buttons) protruding away from the side less than usual, so that would not interfere with my grip as much. The good thing is, I didn't get around to actually designing it and making the order yet.

Because now there appears to be no need for such nonsense. I simply give up using the free/charged attack, and switch using auto attack. No chronic button pressing. Case closed, everyone happy(?). [/sarc]

edit - fix typos

 

Didn't read the entire thread, but to sum it up. what you are referring to in that quote was the charged attack., It wasn't working properly, y ou had to double tap the button to charge it again after the first charged attack swing.

 

Yeppers back to the basic, pathetic, gimp Auto Attack, which just adds more damage, even thow only a little without doing anything. Lets let the game play for us :-( It picks our targets for us, it can fight for us, hey why not let it just run thru glyps 1 - 4 over and over that way I game drink coffee, eat a doughnout and loot when it is over. I know that is reaching but . . . .

These are all issues that have been out there for many releases and the new targeting system has not fixed any of them actually just exacerbated them :-(

 

The TL;DR version is basically:

• The old way (pre-410): activating a glyph, if you have free attack fully charged, resets the charge (as it should) but does not require releasing-pressing the attack button again
• The brave new way (post-410): activating a glyph, if you have free attack fully charged, resets the charge (as it should) and additionally requires releasing-pressing the attack button again, for every glyph. This has serious ergonomic consequences, especially for fingertip grip mouse wielders.

@Weins201, I hear you, but would like to keep this thread in topic (relating to the way free attack is implemented) and especially not devolve into auto attack bashing. Thank you for your understanding and help in keeping it that way.

edit - fix typos

 

Yep, but they did address the follow up Charge issue.. where you h ad to double tap for it to register the recharge system.

 

Honestly though, can we just fix the problem because it's annoying, clumsy, and makes the combat feel unnatural? Why must we devolve every complaint into this "It's not ergonomic" "Gaah my carpal tunnel" "Why do I need a new mouse every 6 months" argument. If players have serious problems and concerns with such health issues perhaps they've come to a cross road in life where a new hobby should be sought out, for the sake of their bodies. I've honestly never heard so much bellyaching over problems such as this AND have the developers bending over to fix it.

If it feels like crap, fix it. If you have a physical disability that's your responsibility. We should not be wasting everyone elses money on developer time/thought and changing mechanics for <15% (Random Innaccurate Statistic) of the player base.

Sincerely,
Your Fingertip Gripped Peer

~Woden

 

Thanks, it might be a matter of bug fixed introducing another bug then. Made a bug report about it.

 

@Wodin Folkvardr
I find your post disrespectful and insulting to those who actually have physical issues related to ergonomics, even disabilities. For the record, I personally have none. I am quite dexterous with both mouse and keyboard. I also like paleo-style standing/hanging/squatting/you-name-it diverse working postures with computers instead of sitting, not because I have a disability or health issues, but because I want none, and sitting is one of the most debilitating postures ever invented. Should I quit gaming also because I do not prefer to sit? Barking at the wrong tree in here.

I agree that arguments related to ergonomics should not be used like a bludgeon. However this is not the case in here. Good ergonomic design is a selling point, a necessary ingredient of a good game. A case of acquired oversensititivity (aka allergy) to certain type of arguments perhaps?

 

I might miss constantly, but at least my arrows fly around in the air until they find a target, even if it means pulling more mobs into my fight.

Arrows doing curly-cues until a target is found.

 

That's fine; I don't see how advising people with such problems to take up something that helps their situation instead of trying to change and spend developer money to change it is disrespectful. That's like saying it's disrespectful to tell people with asthma that they should not participate in an Olympic event located in the mountains and instead work on building up/improving their situation via different activities.

The main point is, as Chris stated, things are buggy and do not feel correct or smooth. Why not focus on the problem and why it doesn't help the game instead of fixating on someone elses personal health limitations.

I'm happy that this problem is known and will be addressed since it does potentially stunt the fluidity of combat.

~Woden

 

I think the analogy here is more than a little bit "over the top" (pun not intended, but appropriate): This is a relatively simple computer game, nowhere near comparable to an Olympic event in the mountains. It does not (should not) actually differ that much from the ergonomic challenges of say (power-)using a spreadsheet or a GIS application, or manipulating photos. A more fitting analogy would therefore be telling people with asthma that they should not try to live what is considered quite normal life. Not disrespectful?

I of course agree that dealing with personal health issues is personal responsibility. However, most people having such issues have already addressed them for their part, and game design should not make it any more difficult than necessary (for example by forcing the purchase/use of additional controllers/mice/keyboards, just for the sake of this particular game). Admittedly this can be challenging because of many different playstyles, but it's not "wasting everyone elses money" - good ergonomic decisions are actually absolutely necessary for the continued success of the game.

 

I've spent the better part of my career behind a keyboard. Many have. I wager most over 45 suffer wrist problems. I'd be curious how many of our own Devs get tingly fingers during a gaming session.