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Recipe Discoverability Limited (Experiment) concerns

Discussion in 'Release 36 Dev+ Feedback Forum' started by Umuri, Nov 13, 2016.

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  1. Umuri

    Umuri Avatar

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    I feel like this is another hotbutton issue where knowledge given to dev+ testers is a huge and measurable advantage over those not having it.
    Due to the nature of this change, a large chunk of dev+ people will now spend the remaining part of this week, crafting as much as they can to pre-emptively fill their recipe books before they lose access to these recipes.

    I feel it is warranted on changes like this like the previous coto issue. Situations where there's an obvious way people who have knowledge of an upcoming balance change can take advantage of before it goes into play.
     
  2. Lace

    Lace Avatar

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    This was mentioned in the post mortem and because of that I am going to be publishing a video about this later tonight and putting to public forums. I will not go into specifics I see on test due to nature of DEV+ and the IRL cost for being part of it, but I do want our brother and sisters that did not watch the post mortem to have a head's up

    The COTO thing was also mentioned last week as well but have not done a video about that. I will try to insert a blurb re-iterating what was said in post mortem.

    I do not feel this violates any terms since it has already been announced (and I have been careful not to say anything the devs did not already say publically or my own DEV observations), but I agree with you @Umuri that not pre-posting this information to the community even though not DEV+ is a bit detrimental.

    I have had folks ask me about things and it hurts to say I am sorry but I cannot comment on that watch the post mortem.

    The GOLD SINK to crafting is huge, the obliteration of 3rd party websites is huge, and while my intent is not to cause rebellion, education can help alleviate the pain of change.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2016
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  3. Gideon Thrax

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    I agree this should be getting wider dissemination.

    What I don't understand is why Portalarium doesn't just lock all recipes and make everyone go out and earn or find them all the right and fair way. The market implications would be negligible (if that) at this stage of the game.
     
  4. Lace

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    Oh yeah keep in mind it says EXPERIMENTAL in the notes for the COTO and crafting. That shows a willingness for compromise and change and tweaking.
     
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  5. Browncoat Jayson

    Browncoat Jayson Legend of the Hearth

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    Recipe prices should be about a fifth of what they are now. Who pays 25x what a food is worth (based on the vendor value) to learn how to make it? Shouldn't the actual ingredients be the biggest hurdle, not paying a vendor for a list of them?
     
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  6. K1000

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    Yes, I agree with what you re saying Umuri. I think this should be made public knowledge and delayed for another release. Some people are going to have a bad surprise and probably not be too happy.
     
  7. Weins201

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    It was in the hang out which is public so end of story.
     
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  8. Selene

    Selene Bug Brigade - Bug Hunter

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    Actually heard about it in the hangout FIRST because I think the R36 notes draft was put up after the postmortem.
     
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  9. Curt

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    So to work on learning crafting stuff you now need a lot more gold making it questionable if its worth it.
     
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  10. GreyMouser Skye

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    Just another version of the play fast and use exploits early and get grandfathered in your gains.

    These are tests that should have been done before persistence.
     
  11. Roycestein Kaelstrom

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    That pretty much sums up the "Early Access". Either you're in early, taste the roughness and at the same time gain some edges; or you wait until the game is more polished and play catching up.
     
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  12. Net

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    I do not like the change much though it will help with some issues and recipies will get more meaning in the game.

    However this is one of those things that should have been done before persistance. And since it was not, it should come with wipe of crafting books even though it would be unfair to those who bought recipies. I assume that the eventual plan is that some recipies will be expensive and hard to get, perhaps reward for completing certain quest. I think it is quite okay for people to keep recipies they discovered, learned from friends, or bought, but I really think that filling my crafting book with recipies from wiki now would be an exploit and I am not doing that. And I am lazy and broke. Still it irks me that there is increasing gap between those who (ab)use broken game mechanics before they are fixed as the game is getting harder.
     
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  13. Themo Lock

    Themo Lock Bug Brigade - Bug Hunter

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    this has happened in a few different ways >.<
     
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  14. Aurelius Silverson

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    I'm concerned about the way this was made known, but more concerned that it's just a bad idea. Perhaps there is a need to make recipes 'harder to get' but come on now - we already need our medieval-themed miners and lumberjacks to wear full armour and carry heavy duty weaponry just to mine ore and chop wood (when did anything remotely like THAT happen in any reality we know of?), but now in order to be able to tutor other trainee crafters, you will either have to fight your way to a recipe, or equip them so they can fight their own way to it if it isn't a teachable one.

    I'd never argue about a game world needing to be overly realistic, we play in them as an alternative to reality - but they should make internal sense, and this is making Novia even dafter than it is already. There must be better ways to make things work than 'well your chef must go kill the archlich to learn how to make a special trifle'....
     
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  15. Silis

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    Personally I think this is a great change for the health of the game and value of crafting. It should take more than walking to a vendor and dropping a few gold to learn the most mythical and rare recipes in the world. In addition being able to find the materials for an item and suddenly I can make it with no previous knowledge has never made sense to me, discovery only seemed workable if it was somehow made difficult to actually make an item the first time.

    As for the knowledge of this change affecting players in Dev+, as has been said it was made public first in the post mortem video. I think what was missed and could be improved in the future is that the follow up was re-posting the video without specifically addressing the upcoming mechanic changes. A follow up post in the Friday update to reiterate upcoming design changes for those who did not watch the video would have put it front and center of more faces to avoid shock on patch day.
     
  16. Mishikal

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    Why not make it so you have to have a certain skill level to be able to "discover" a recipe, same skill level as required to buy and learn it from the vendor? I honestly don't see what the end goal is here. And for a ton of stuff (particularly decor items) who the heck cares how you learn it? If you're talking specialized weapons/armor, then I can see skill-based restrictions on how you learn (whether buying the recipe from a vendor or learning it via another player or discovering it once you have the proficiency to prove you should know how to do it).

    You want to talk about realism, consider cooking -- Every "recipe" in the world was something that was *discovered* at some point or another by someone who experimented with something new. It may have been built up on the knowledge of prior skill learned from others or from their own experiences, and sometimes it was a completely accident. I.e., discovery has played a KEY role in the way in which recipes have been learned in general across the ages, across professions.
     
  17. Roycestein Kaelstrom

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    Just want to make sure.. If we have at least one person who know all recipes right now, that person can teach us everything, yes?
     
  18. liz_the_wiz

    liz_the_wiz Bug Brigade - Bug Hunter

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    No they already said only lower levels would be reteachable, and not all even then
     
  19. Silis

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    Currently it is stated that not all recipes will be teachable, I don't know if we can tell which will fall into what category yet.
     
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  20. rild

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    Different prices for different recipes makes sense, definitely some of them should be lower, and some should be more rare. I'd like to see them less centralized and spread through the NPC population. One innkeeper or cook at a tavern might teach/sell you a few common recipes and one unique to them and their area. This is an easy way to add huge amounts of quest material, by making collecting recipes for crafting an actual commodity.
     
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