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Release 33 Post Mortem Q&A (those that got missed)

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by DarkStarr, Sep 9, 2016.

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  1. mdsota152

    mdsota152 Avatar

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    • What are the chances to remove the Random from the Enchanting and Master Crafting skill, STARR: We do not plan on doing this. It would be destructive to the economy if everyone could create exactly the same item at will and destroy all rarity in the system. It would also eliminate an important sink in the economy.
      REBUTTAL: There are other ways to handle a sink… like increasing the chance to break the item on crafting. Allow for more precise crafting but at the risk of greater failure. Stop making EVERY aspect of crafting a sink (materials costs, breakage, unwanted randomness).
    • Are there going to be adjustments to the crafting recipes to reduce the huge amount of resources needed to make a item, (IE 10 metal ingot to make a ring or 12 scrap per ingot). STARR: No. This would lead to a huge glut of items and prices would crash making crafting a completely unprofitable profession.
      REBUTTAL: crafting is already a completely unprofitable profession. Nothing breaks, it’s too expensive, everybody can craft their own gear, and nobody has the money to pay 20kgp for a pair of boots (because you had to make 20 pairs just to get the right enchantments on it plus breakage…) so you have to sell them at a huge loss…
    • Will the NPC vendors be adjusted to where they buy items and pay the players higher prices, as the item prices increase until there back down to the Base price. STARR: No. This would create an endless faucet of gold that would lead to hyper inflation in the economy.
      REBUTTAL: You already have an endless faucet you won’t fix. How many more times will an NPC buy a rusty dagger for the same price but not a finely crafted enchanted sword? You are approaching this all wrong… you’re trying to screw over crafting as a gold sink but leave loot grinding a gold faucet. You need to find something else as a gold sink and open up crafting to make a profit.
      (edit.... needed to add this comment) So is the plan to make PC crafted items appear on NPC loot tables dead? If not, who do you expect to sell stuff to an NPC for a big loss just to get it into the loot tables?
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2016
  2. Barugon

    Barugon Avatar

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    Right. So, what measurable truthful actions exist in the game?
     
  3. Hakadek

    Hakadek Avatar

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    Mostly in the quests I suspect, there a few places where you have to decide between being truthful and hurting someone's feelings or dissembling to avoid this.
     
  4. Rufus D`Asperdi

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    Those aren't supposed to be known... which is why I hope they removed the /stats command entirely soon, before that can be used to plumb the depths and breadth of the Virtue system.
     
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  5. Lord Baldrith

    Lord Baldrith Avatar

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    Ya this one really disappoints me alot. Currently crafting is pretty boring to me. Once your recipe book is filled, you just click craft to create. This is no more deep than WoW crafting was. I get that some people don't like mini games, but perhaps it could at least give us some interaction with the crafting project during crafting.

    Currently, I set my crafting to 20 and go make coffee or read the forums. I would prefer to have things happen during crafting that if you didn't respond you'd fail or lose quality etc...I of course would prefer a full on system like Vanguard (which was by far the best crafting I've ever experienced) but anything to add to my character getting to interact with crafting would be a huge improvement.

    It feels very basic to me as is.
     
  6. majoria70

    majoria70 Avatar

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    I really agree with this. The details in the game that make it interesting need to be on the jira list. If the systems allow you to go on auto pilot instead of being immersed and interacting in some way, and also making sure that some interesting things happen during doing them, then in the long run it will get old really fast. In fact the whole game will get old really fast. Don't get me wrong, there is so much to like so far in what has been implemented in crafting and other systems as well, such as I love the crafting actions your character is doing, and the sounds are coming along nicely. I do know the system is not complete as none of them are atm. Details, details, details, don't forget;)
     
  7. Lord Baldrith

    Lord Baldrith Avatar

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    Yep...I love this game and have unlimited things I need to do. I do find that things are getting too easy for me at times, especially crafting and leveling.

    We really need to remember that this game is going to last us many years, so hoping the details are not left off. Crafting needs to be fun, challenging, and not a grind. Combat needs to be fun, challenging and not all grind.
     
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  8. Hakadek

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    I understand the perspective, but your 'huge improvement' is just as reasonably a huge negative for others.

    Turning the crafting process into an interactive process with penalties for not interacting is where EQ crafting started. In the beginning, the crafting table could kill you if you got it wrong! :)

    I have a huge dislike for this sort of thing which usually ends up trying to mirror PvE engagements so crafting becomes more like fighting.

    I think if you want to make crafting more varied and rewarding I'd look towards the resource side of things a bit more and consider the SWG approach where resources with different attributes appeared and disappeared so a crafter who collected resources and saved the best ones to match up with other exceptional resources could make much better items than someone who didn't have the same experience over time.

    It rewarded those who player for the long run rather than those who just marco'd skills for the sake of it and it let crafters build a reputation as someone who knew what they could do with the best resources and created a rarity value in those resources so there was a strong market for the best, if you could find it...

    Crafting and fighting should be different I beleive and no matter how appealing the interaction is, when you are working on that 100th piece of lumber for the house you are building I guarantee you'll wish you didn't have to interact constantly to prevent it turning into sawdust...
     
  9. Browncoat Jayson

    Browncoat Jayson Legend of the Hearth

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    Well, I actually DO want to have it more closely mirror fighting, so there is something to do while crafting, however I don't think there should be negatives for not interacting. The Active crafting skills would do things to make crafting better (i.e., complete faster, give better chances for crits, reduce durability damage on tools, save fuels, etc). If a crafter wanted to be better than average, those would help. If they didnt want to bother with extra skills, they continue doing what they do today.
     
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  10. Hakadek

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    It never works like that though, there is no option to continue doing what we do today as that then results in substandard products. So we are forced to play the little games or interactions that you want introduced regardless of if we want to or not...

    There is no 'normal or better' there is only better or worse so not interacting makes things worse and nobody wants worse...

    Why does crafting have to be like fighting?

    Fighting is like fighting :) If you want that then go fight.

    Crafting can be different to fighting without being 'wrong'.

    Forcing people to do something while crafting just for the sake of having something to do seems like the worst kind of logic. If you don't enjoy crafting right now then lets talk about ways to make it more engaging, but let's not make 'busy work' changes just for the purpose of giving people something to do.
     
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  11. Snazz

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    Crafting was hugely intensive in EQ2 and was the source of a carpel tunnel epidemic.

    Gathering should likely be looked at first, FFXIV had a neat twist
     
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  12. Browncoat Jayson

    Browncoat Jayson Legend of the Hearth

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    It can be different from fighting, but right now its worse. Its BORING.

    Like I said, you are not "forced" to do anything. I'd rather have busy work, rather than staring at my screen waiting for a bar to fill up. Active crafting skills would help this. There might be other ways to do this, but this is one that can easily be slotted in because we already have glyphs, have hotbars that only appear during a specific mode (combat, so crafting should be easy to add).

    I'm not saying there isn't a better way. I'm just not hearing anyone offer one. I'm sorry you feel you might have to DO SOMETHING in order to keep up with the Jones, but I don't see anything offered that would improve crafting nearly as much as this would.

    EQ2's crafting wasn't all bad, it just enforced negatives if you didn't participate. If that wasn't in SotAs, there wouldn't be such a backlash.
     
  13. LoneStranger

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    Personally, I would prefer some thinking that goes into the crafting, and not the kind of thinking where you're trying to figure out how many components you need to pull out of your chest at once to minimize running back and forth to the crafting table.

    I would not like any kind of action-based mini-game, as I think that may not work well for some people who just aren't into those type of games or is unable react that fast for whatever reason.

    I would prefer there to be decisions about which components we put into the craft. This could be where exceptional gathering and exceptional crafting comes in. If components are exceptional, perhaps they have some innate bonuses that transfer to the final product. Unfortunately, exceptional components would mean less stacking and more inventory management. It might require a pass at the container system, but we should get that anyway at some point.

    I fear persistence and the resistance to change will render any movement toward enhancing crafting a total s---storm.
     
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  14. Hakadek

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    This I can agree with, making crafting more dependent upon sourcing and stockpiling particular grades of resource brings a real experience and time -served aspect to the role of crafter and encourages interactions between players to find or trade resources with specific characteristics.

    Trying to add a dexterity based skill to the crafting process is really not something that lasts. It inevitably becomes tedious no matter how novel it might be for the first few days.

    Searching for the perfect combination of resources to craft a specific item with the absolute best stats could last a life time :)
     
  15. Lord Baldrith

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    I never did crafting in EQ so not sure what it's like. EQ2 had good crafting and even experimentation was added later which was good fun too, with a chance of destroying your project.

    I know in early days of Vanguard you could be killed if you had some critical failure on the table...nothing wrong with that but heck I'm a hardcore crafter hehe...

    I never got to play SWG before they turned it off but I did watch some videos on it and it looked kinda like Enthropia ideas with the finding of huge nodes etc...I like that too...

    I just prefer to be able to have more fun in crafting than what there is now. Of course I would like a system that is a mini-game, but if that's completely unacceptable for our game, then at least make crafting funner and more rewarding. I raised my level to GM in a couple of skills and got 0 benefit. I don't tailor better armor, I don't get better crits, I don't get extra resources, nothing. At least give me some crafting quests that reward me for making higher quality goods, and while we're at it, make my GM crafting able to make higher quality goods. My level 70 crafter does as well as my level 100 crafter...I want to be rewarded...

    Now crafting is also too easy, for those of us who spend alot of time in the mines getting a GM skill takes a week or 2...again pretty unacceptable for a game I want to play for many years...Where is my challenge and fun in crafting?
     
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  16. Hakadek

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    The challenge right now is mostly in waiting until there is time to make it fun...

    Yes, I know that isn't a great answer, but I think it is true.

    I'm sure the team will be able to get more into improving the crafting experience and expanding the utility of GM status for example, but right now we don't even have all the crafting types in-game and as for crafting quests, there is still much work to be done on quests as a whole, so probably too early to be expecting anything crafting specific just yet.

    We are still some distance from a true 'release' build, this is very much 'Early Access' so there is much basic content still to be fleshed out before they can cycle back and spend a lot of time on something that is functional but not yet 'fun enough'.

    I have high hopes that we will all like where this ends, we just have to stick with the ride and roll with the problems until we get there...
     
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  17. Lord Ravnos

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    Huzzah! seconded!
     
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  18. Tiki Pirate

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    I did like the vanguard crafting system, as it was novel; but, ultimately dex based crafting becomes repetitive.

    I like the ideas put forth on combinations of ingredients. The recipes in the book could be clicked - then another window with all ingredients and variants could be opened. (Longfall Black Pearl, Perennial Black Pearl, etc)

    I think moon phase and even current weather should have an effect. A bow created during a rainstorm could be more supple, a potion weaker - this could make certain regions better for crafting certain goods.

    I think implementing regional variations could make this game unique.
     
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  19. majoria70

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    What would be really cool is if when crafting you could add a secret ingredient (secret ingredient slot on the table need to be added ;) )and as mentioned it could be a black pearl, a bone, a tin cup, or magical item. So when crafting and adding the *secret ingredient*, the item would gain some kind of effect from it, and really even the effect is secret since it would be random properties that the item could give, including color, texture, buffs, etc, with random percentages of which effect an item can give.

    So say you add a dead fish to your armor, perhaps you are given .01 fish scales add to *health* bonus which percentage could be bigger or smaller or perhaps the fish adds speed or endurance since fish are speedy, agile types of creatures.

    Or say you add that same fish to a recipe you are cooking and it makes a new recipe, like an upper tier of fish stew or bouillabaisse, or it is a magic fish and gives magical properties at a randomized amount.

    I just see so much opportunity to have fun with the system. Perhaps my ideas are wacky but they are for example to have us to have fun in the game systems. I also truly believe it would also give crafting a much needed surprise factor by allowing each of us to create some unique items instead of the old same old, same old, everyone can make the same stuff thing. So someone would say hey how did you get that unusual effect and you would say well it is a secret ingredient I used. ;)
     
  20. ThurisazSheol

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    oooOOOoooOOOooo! i really like that idea @majoria70 that secret item coudl be ANYTHING from a bucket to a fully crafted armor piece, to a coto to a single gold coin in a regional economy....kind of reminds me of the Mystic Forge from Guild Wars 2, where it seems fairly random, but it is also very specific for crafting legendary weapons at the same time.

    never understood with the forge why you needed a crafting station specific to those items, and couldn't fully incorporate it into all of crafting at their respective stations in the first place...and that is exactly what you are proposing... thuri muey likey...
     
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