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Reward Factor Mobs & Environment/Scenes

Discussion in 'Release 41 Feedback Forum' started by Sinclair, May 14, 2017.

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  1. Sinclair

    Sinclair Avatar

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    Even for instance Ebon Fighter Champions are dropping nearly the same amount of Gold as low level Skeletons. What i mean is, that the "feeling" of being rewarded killing stronger mobs is not quite balanced. Only boss like mobs are dropping more Gold. I do not mean getting only rewarded by Gold, it's more a psychological thing, a reward could be also any kind of an item which let me get the feeling it is the effort worth. Killing a stronger mob should reward more compared to a lower mob.

    Adventuring and exploring thru scenes should also be more rewarded, more randomly spread surprises should be in a scene to make it worth having the effort to explore every corner. Currently it's quite boring after you explored the entire scene. Everybody knows there are no surprises delivered by scene / environment, only polygons and mobs. Having and Marking points of interest is a little beginning, but not more. Players should be animated to explore, maybe find puzzles, mini games, items, get more info about the virtues, increase their virtues by doing some actions...combine more quests with virtue related things. Collect gems/herbs or other items which maybe help other NPCs..... simply let the players more do in a scene.
     
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  2. majoria70

    majoria70 Avatar

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    yes I so agree with this. Loot is too mundane and repetitive, even though we have artifacts here and there loot is still mundane and I agree with the OP's ideas very much. :)
     
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  3. kaeshiva

    kaeshiva Avatar

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    Yeah, I'm in agreement here.
    There are monsters in 5 skull zones dropping the same exact rusty hammers as you can get in 1 skull zone, and the same amount of gold, somewhere between 5-25 usually.
    Kill a hardened skeleton? Get a shoddy shortbow you can sell for 10!
    If you're after pure cash, you're better off farming soltown catacombs forever since you can 1 shot everything and it drops the same loot as 5kull. This makes no sense.
    The best way to make progress seems to be grinding absolutely trivial content and as your character gets stronger, you kill slightly harder trivial content to get better xp while you do it.

    I think there really needs to be a complete "loot pass" on mobs in every zone to ensure loot of the appropriate tier is being dropped.
    I would *happily* volunteer my time to go and kill something everywhere and compile a list, if I had any sort of indication that something would be done about it. I appreciate devs have better things to do than go poke monsters in every zone to see what they drop. So I volunteer, and I'm sure I can scrape together a squad of other volunteers to go and document this, if that's the holdup.

    We heard /saw on the postmortem that like 80% of wealth is being pumped out of a handful of zones. That's because those are the handful of zones where the monsters are actually dropping level appropriate loot and/or there is a decent spawn of materials. Lets bring the other zones up to where they should be so that players actually have a reason to go to the other 50 or so unique zones in the game.

    On a slightly related note:
    Patterns are great, in the attempt to artificially affect rarity the "pattern" weapons only drop some of the time. The problem is, if that doesn't drop, nothing does, meaning you can kill a mob and just get a few gold coins - this is annoying. I'm talking about 1k hp+ cultist champions or swashbucklers dropping "nothing" because they aren't going to drop their katana or flamberge. The problem is they drop nothing more often than they drop anything. If you don't want the special pattern weapon to drop for some reason, I can live with that, but could they at least drop a crappy weapon equivalent or something instead of nothing?
     
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  4. majoria70

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    Yes well even more than a loot pass, something that randomizes it somehow so that it is not always exactly the same would be awesome:) Also different creatures from different regions and thinking should have different loot. Perhaps Bandits would have things they stole/plundered from villages, abandoned homes, ships that crashes up on the coasts. Lots of ideas for loot depending on many things. That would go a long way to making loot more fun and interesting.

    and really just my critism, but the bandits all have the most irritating and same old same old sounds and comments. I have to turn it down and I'm sick of it ;) Could we please improve on sounds for our creatures and npcs? They should not all sound just alike and they definitely should sound much more individual and interesting in different maps depending on the world around them.

    Sounds that are appropriate and immerse us in the world, not distract us by irritations and repetitiveness.
    https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/f...or-mobs-environment-scenes.89421/#post-810079


     
    Last edited: May 14, 2017
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  5. Timmy Vortex

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    More sand in the box :) Why is it being held back all these releases (patches). Because the economy is being tuned or something?
     
  6. Chatele

    Chatele Avatar

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    I agree with everything here, It would be nice to find hidden chest that doesn't always spawn in the same spot that would need lock picks and the soon to be hopefully pick lock skill. And inside the chest would always be something different and RARE .....
     
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  7. Burzmali

    Burzmali Avatar

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    We do? I've got better than 10 hours grinding high level mobs this week and the best I've seen are a few skeleton bones.
     
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  8. Sinclair

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    Look at this situation: I made it, beat everything in the Tower of the Shuttered Eye and found this nice room with four chests. Thought what a great treasure i've discovered in my Adventure.
    What do you think was the amount of gold i found in the chests? See beneath the picture...

    [​IMG]

    ...between 1-2 gold per chest, but as a spoiler a higher amount in the cabinet (not saying how much, but low compared to the achievement to reach the top of the tower).
    THIS is from an psychological pov a nightmare of good designed, as it was the opposite of feeling good. I was really disappointed.

    Guys, and for the understanding of everyone: I am trying to help making the game better, as i can imagine that other players simply fast leave a game once they see their effort is not achieved and honored. This reward topic is a fun killer and leads to de-motivation.
     
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  9. 2112Starman

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    I just think this is really hard for them to balance and there are a lot of variables. I think people are missing some:

    we'll start with knowing that "boss" mobs are the big issue still, Im not even sure how they can fix these yet since people can solo them and that would be really bad if they had a lot better drops, we already see people with rarer things like 100's of dragon meat and such.

    Think of a few of them:

    They want newer people to be able to get gold, people say less then lvl 50 taking on 1-2-3 skull mobs. Now, these people may be attacking them one at a time and it may take them a minute to kill it. They also probably have to rest a lot between and they can only hold 100 stones worth before running to the bank. On the flip side, I can go into a 3 skull zone and enlessly farm them (carry 1000 weight worth) with one hits and rack in a lot of gold, I can do this with 6 skulls now to.

    What I have seen now is clear difference in the things they drop. Higher lvl mobs now drop more expensive weps to sell... going from rusty daggers and moving along to rusty swords, 1h and 2h hammers and then at the higher 5 skulls now custom weps like halberds, kitanas, half axes, kobald hammers, elven bows, etc... Their prices go from selling from 10 gp to up to 150 gp (listed value). So for example, I kill a 3 skull cultist and it drops a rusty dagger (10 gp) and the 6 skulls I kill now drop half axes which go for 50+ gp per. these higher level mobs now also drop recipes and potions as well as a shot at artifacts. Some in seiges drop wood and explosion potions and such.

    So while not perfect, they have gotten a lot better. I actually think it is really balanced, my new farm spot nets me about 7K gold an hour (or more, I didnt farm all that much this weekend and made over 80K gold strait off mobs). Compare that to joe player at say lvl 40 farming a 2 skull zone, what is their take per hour?

    Here is a 1 hour run from Sunday night:

    https://www.twitch.tv/videos/143635808
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2017
  10. Trihugger

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    As a Joe player at about level 40, it's too damn dull to realistically want to farm gold in those two star areas. Same boring drops that I've seen since the start of the game so I have no interest/want/use to farm it as I can steal everything they drop and get the same result I would from the drops: scraps. I totally understand that this is a work in progress and ultimately that's the only reason I'm not terribly concerned with the overall picture.

    In my mind, the progression of "boss" monster balance has to go like this: Skill Tuning/Balance among skills -> Boss balance (group required or soloable with the now balanced tool-kit of skills) -> Boss loot based on *reasons* (Difficulty, rarity, etc.). From what I read of the upcoming release notes we're getting a few substantial passes on Skill balance which is ultimately still step 1 of my vastly oversimplified flow chart.
     
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  11. Spoon

    Spoon Bug Brigade - Bug Hunter

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    Those chests used to give out more rewards. But then they were farmed mercilessly. Which is why we can't have nice things. Wherever they have put in decent rewards then that has become the new farming spot which then gets nerfed.

    *sigh*

    If I were designing things I would mitigate this through the quest system. Since that can't be farmed without restarting a new avatar.

    For instance the reward for the Tower shouldn't be in the chests which can be farmed but rather in the resolution of that Tower when you talk to the quest givers.
    That is where i would put the good loot table. So that we could get the rare drops not from repeated killing of mobs but rather from progression.

    Which means if I were designing things that there would be many more single step mini quests not necessarily attached to the main story.

    Furthermore if one had party instanced dungeons then one could have one boss with better loot that shows up first time but then a lesser copy boss with less loot shows on subsequent visits. (Only for story bosses not for grind bosses).
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2017
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  12. kaeshiva

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    Shuttered Eye is a kind of special case - every 5 mins you could go in and clear it out so it got nerfed.
    The zone change timer was increased to 15 min so you could go in every 15 min and clear it out (so it got nerfed)
    I have long suggested that these sort of things have like a daily quest flag, so you can do it once a day - chests, boss kills, etc. That way people who struggle to do the content can get a reward when they do it, but its not something anyone can sit there and farm 24/7. This would allow boss loot to be good every time you kill it -once every 24 hours or whatever time increment is deemed acceptable.
     
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  13. Burzmali

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    Do that and you'd have a loot conga line of high level players (or player) chain teleporting around the world to get their daily goodies.
     
  14. kaeshiva

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    True, but that'd still be better than someone parked at the demon for 18 hours straight bashing it like a pinata
     
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  15. Burzmali

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    I don't know, guaranteeing "good" loot for the first kill by a player per day means hardcore grinders will get bosses * no. alts amount of good loots entering the economy per day, which is going to put pressure on the devs to nerf drops which further rewards the hardcore crowd.
     
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  16. redfish

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    Wolves, bears, etc. -- It would be nice if instead of dropping generic "animal hides," we could get wolf hides, bear hides. Besides the obvious crafting potential like in making wolf cloaks, bearskin rungs, it would also allow things like "obsidian wolf hides," which would be more valuable.
    Elementals -- Once we have elemental loots like described here, the amount dropped could increase with level.
    Bandits -- Tougher bandits could have more drops like gems and there could be bandit loot chests in scenes.
    Undead -- I think corpse wax and obsidian chips already increase with level, which is good.
    Mid-level loot -- I believe that the devs are working on this. Between common drops and rare things like artifacts, there should be mid-level loot which drops more often with more powerful mobs.
    Harvesting -- It would be nice if wood and other resources, etc. could come in different qualities, and higher qualities were more common drops in some scenes that were more difficult.
     
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  17. kaeshiva

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    Then make it once a week? Simple enough to control the output by changing the increment as to how many of these items they expect to enter the economy.
    As things stand, only the hardcore players get the stuff, cause for most people, killing these is far too risky and far too much hassle for zero chance of reward, or in the slight 1% chance that something not worthless drops, you then have to roll for it within the group. My suggestion would reward players who group up to do something difficult while minimizing the advantage the hardcore players can take. Sure, you'd have everyone doing their daily/weekly/whatever routine, but it would be far less than is entering the economy as things stand. A hardcore player CAN kill the demon 20 times until something drops. Normal players can't - and those who can kinda do it or maybe do it in a group, don't bother as the risk of death xp loss is FAR too high to justify anything it may possibly drop - and most of the time it drops crap.
     
  18. Browncoat Jayson

    Browncoat Jayson Legend of the Hearth

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    I don't see a problem here. Since it's based on lockouts, shouldn't this be based on the number of accounts? They supported the game with their alt accounts, no reason why they shouldn't be able to use them.
     
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