Sadistic game?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Witcheypoo, Sep 14, 2018.

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  1. StrangerDiamond

    StrangerDiamond Avatar

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    Says who ?

    Did you read the argument in the thread ? It's kind of rude to sidestep the fact there is already a penalty that people consider painful enough.

    So who says it has to be one of two things, when its already multiple things ?
     
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  2. Dulayne

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    This is just one of many marmite features of the game. Some people love it, some people hate it. I have been in a game where there is a WORSE xp penalty than this. Imagine it taking several hundred million xp to level up. Imagine that it takes 1 hour to get 1% of a level and then you lose 4% exp per death.

    With the double EXP I lose 100k or so a death and get it back pretty quickly. Could be worse but I guess it could always be better right?

    (Some people lose a lot more I know).
     
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  3. Mac2

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    I lose about 4.2 mil on one death, I do not die often but it does happen from time to time.
     
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  4. Tila Tenderfoot

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    I lose about 700k per death and have no desire to grind anymore. Death penalty is a sore issue because it forces me to spend more time on soulless grinding rather than getting better at combat or helping others. So I just craft or collect resources.

    When I do adventure, I’m forced into solo play in order to maintain the appropriate pool. I’ve watched my party members die over and over to unbalanced bludgeon, mobs attacking through walls, sinkholes, etc. I feel bad when this happens and try to help them regain the xp pool, but this takes away the time I could have spent doing something else, like rl stuff.

    I like this game because of the combat system, but I don’t think it’s fair to have the high death penalty when certain bugs cause the deaths in the first place.
     
  5. Arradin

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    What are you talking about?

    What other penalty is it except XP loss?

    Do you know that the game originally had skills decay over time regardless if you died or not? This was the change.

    And according to Who? According to me :) these are all opinions we all have
     
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  6. 2112Starman

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    I lose 600K XP now which is almost a good hour with atten. But Im quitting the game so I really dont care now, this boat has sailed for me. But, the key is this dev group should be listening to this. This death tax is probably 15% of the reason Im leaving (so its important)
     
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  7. Feeyo

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    keep DEATH PenAlTy in the GAME... Ok I just got dizzy writing that...
     
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  8. StrangerDiamond

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    *sigh* *slow facepalm*
     
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  9. gtesser

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    I thought this was a thread about capital punishment (a.k.a character permanent death). Can you imagine, everyone gathering to watch your character about to be executed (deleted)?
     
  10. Brewton

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    Didn't you say the same thing a few days ago when your post got deleted?
     
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  11. StrangerDiamond

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    Brewton for president !!!
     
  12. kaeshiva

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    Its funny, recently had a friend who read some of the new quality changes to the game and asked me if it was worth coming back. I encouraged her to do so. Her FIRST question: "Is there still XP loss on death?"

    I'm not sure how much XP I lose on death, but its getting close to the 1 million mark. With the new increased XP rates that's mitigated the penalty considerably, which has for a while, quieted the outrage about this topic. But it is still changing player behavior, once you start getting up there in levels, having to pay an hour's grind or more simply as a cost of entry to do any content that might kill you, is still stupid and pointless and does nothing to make the game better in any way. Best case scenario, I grit my teeth and go waste my time grinding tears to recoup what was lost - not a happy prospect - or I earn it back through a few hours of 'normal' play during which everything I accomplish is simply the 'step forward' after the two steps back. I still do this day do not fathom how this system is thought to be 'good for the game' - it seems to serve only to frustrate and to discourage people from trying things. The new aether creatures that can 1-shot your fully buffed tank with some sort of unmitigatable untyped magic damage? Yeah, pass.

    Can you imagine them ever trying to implement raid content in this game? Nobody will bother, except people too low level to feel the hit or people who can stomach hours of mindless repeated grind just to get back where they were.

    While decay doesn't hurt as much as it once did due to the double/tears/xpbonanza, it is still enough to discourage death at any cost, which still changes player behavior in ways that are detrimental to the game. Learning and wiping to content and figuring out strategies is FUN - testing out builds that will potentailly fail horribly is FUN - now I pretty much confine all of that to the QA server. Keeping the death penalty, considering the direction of the game and trying to make it less punishing, seems counter to purpose. Death should 'sting' yes, but it shouldn't be crippling or demoralizing or make you want to ragequit the game when you get into a less than optimal group situation and nobody heals you and now you get to spend the rest of your evening doing grind content for no benefit but to get back where you were. That gets old, fast.
     
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  13. StrangerDiamond

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    Don't ask them to explain how its good for the multitude, and not the few who LOVE this barrier of entry.

    They can't.
     
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  14. Witcheypoo

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    THIS! this exactly, give us a debuff for a bit after death, loads of other ways to "punish" death! Get creative, but this EQ1 crap has BEEN out of style for a LONG time! I do NOT play to show how "hardcore" a gamer i am... i play for FUN, when i see a mob that MIGHT kill me, do i A: JUMP on and SEE how i do? or B: run the frick away since i do not want to lose the small amount of xp i currently have....
    Now that we have the glowey blue demons of death randomly sprinkled around... i dont do a WHOLE lot of the exploration that i want to do. I play a bit more mahjong or i gather silver ore for masterworking..

    Witcheypoo
     
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  15. Arradin

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    Sighs. It doesnt matter how much you give people, they always want more (or less)

    This game has no skillcap, you can train as much as you want however you want. Tell me ONE other game Who use this system without penalty of death.

    I Will gladly listen to any constructive ideas on What to change XP loss to , anything that isnt just a temporary thing.

    Because one of these 4 are a must for a healthy game.:

    1) hard cap
    2) soft cap
    3) XP decay
    4) XP loss

    Just allowing people to keep getting XP for all eternety without some kind of cap or decay is not realistic. I wont even argue about why, its common sense
     
  16. Elwyn

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    First, I'm going to say that they did do something, they made double XP permanent. So it's like losing only half as much.

    At 92, it's about the same for me. And I don't grind unless I just want to beat up on stuff, because I don't feel the urge to get up on that hamster wheel. Perhaps this means I die more when I'm not trying to get a lot of XP. Oh well. I try to keep a 14+M pool these days. It's over 17M right now.

    Hmm, it's almost as if that was precisely the point. It's as if they were trying to discourage people getting 100+ GMs or too many 120+ skills.

    But have you told us yet what your death penalty is? Not some some top-1% guy who does the eat/sleep/grind/repeat, with a GMs list that goes off the screen, but you.

    Ditto for 75-era days in FFXI. The 50-70 range was probably the worst due to kinks in the XP curve, and it still kind of is.

    Perhaps we should consider what behavior they wanted to have an effect on. It wasn't to have you avoid dying, it was apparently to avoid you having no limit to how high your skills went. Would you or anyone else complaining about the death penalty rather have a skill level cap or a limit to the number of GMs you can have? Say, no more than 40 points total beyond 100 in all your skills? (I'll be nice and say that crafting skills would have their own 40)
     
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  17. Sara Dreygon

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    I'm up to around 1.6 mil per death now which is approaching what I get in a night after work. That's with most of my XP in my specializations.

    I'm enjoying going to Ruined Keep but usually die at least once there so every now and then I get the thought to just head to the safer Upper Tears... again. This is not what I want to do.

    The next three things I'm leveling add up to 330 million, are all in my two specializations, and give very small benefit. With the super steep leveling progression I'm not sure we need decay other than maybe something more aimed at keeping people from leveling every skill instead of the ?unintended? effect of limiting very very minor growth of characters.

    I too love this game very much :D:D:D!
     
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  18. Pawz

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    Buff Taming! :)
     
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  19. majoria70

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    Oh no sorry you are quitting. That is sad news. I'm sure they are listening.
     
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  20. 2112Starman

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    I think this argument is just trying to merge 2 topics together that dont have to be. Death tax does not have to be related to skill caps at all. This game has skill caps... they are just soft. That is basically how much time you have to play the game. I am adv lvl 113 and it took me over a month even with 2x xp to hit it with the amount of time I have to play this game. adv lvl 114 would probably take me 3 months right now and maybe get me a few meager points in one skill thats already 110.

    the main problem is that for people who can play 18 hours a day, their soft cap may be adv lvl 125 (take them 3 months to hit 126) and a super casual person, it may be 80 (may take them 3 months to hit 81).

    So this is just a play time argument.
     
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