Should tax-free housing be something a player can achieve over time, rather than buying with money?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Deana Beretta, Jun 29, 2018.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Deana Beretta

    Deana Beretta Avatar

    Messages:
    68
    Likes Received:
    159
    Trophy Points:
    8
    My favorite part of this game is the housing. So much so that I purchased a tax-free POT village deed off of the player marketplace. Just so I could have a place of my own. I payed $280 for it. More than I had ever invested in a game before (I put $40 into the original kickstarter, just to ensure a copy of the game, should the project be funded).

    I loved that village lot. I put a 2-story w/ balcony home on it (a craftable house!), and decorated it with stuff I found from adventuring (vial B and whatnot) as well as stuff that I crafted. It was great. I'd adventure, or gather resources, or craft new furniture for the house.

    Every day, my wife (we are playing the game together) would have a list of things she wanted for decorating the house. Things she saw in other peoples homes that she liked the look of. And I would do the research to find out where the pattern came from. I would travel to the location (doing road encounters on the way), buy the pattern, come home, and make the things on the list. It was fun.

    But the longer we played (we've only been playing since the week prior to launch, release 52), the more minor inconveniences started to bother me. I didn't like having crafting in the basement of the house. We had a great crafting setup in the basement, but we also had storage for things upstairs. I had a container specifically for my wife where I placed things she might want to use for decoration, or for selling. She had a similar container for stuff she found for me. Our cooking station was upstairs. The reagents we shared were in a container upstairs. And I found it annoying, when trying to sort my inventory to constantly have to load between upstairs and the basement as I discovered things in my inventory that we had storage for on the other side of the loading screen.

    We needed a bigger place. Somewhere that we could have dedicated crafting space, and living space, all without using a basement. But I didn't want to put in more money. Which is what led me down this path. If housing is part of what makes the game enjoyable, why is it behind such a steep paywall? The recent addition of a taxed row lot (with the reduction in taxes for said row lot) is a step in the right direction, as it's something nearly anyone can achieve, and maintain with minimal effort. But anything beyond that is simply out of reach for a casual player. It seems like the only option is to put in more money.

    I realize that people who do put in a lot of money deserve something for the efforts. Something unavailable to people who do not contribute money. But for that thing to be (essentially) the housing in this game, takes away the main reason to play for anyone unwilling to spend hundreds of dollars. I've since sold my tax free village lot to recover my money spent on the game, and I'm making due with the row lot that I have for completing the story quests. We'll see how long that lasts before I start feeling the need for something bigger again. If I'm unable to achieve a bigger home by just playing the game at my own pace, I'm probably done.
     
    Salix, Waxillium, Stundorn and 8 others like this.
  2. Albus

    Albus Avatar

    Messages:
    512
    Likes Received:
    1,047
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Gender:
    Male
    I like the idea, and/or ways to reduce taxes through in-game deeds/quests/achievements of some kind (too bad taxes were reduced only for row lots, so far ;) ). With POT's increasing available land for lots, why not? Maybe have a way to gain tax-free POT lots at least, or make taxes lower in POT's than elsewhere. Stuff that lets new players acquire more or larger lots and sustain them sounds good to me.
     
  3. Brewton

    Brewton Avatar

    Messages:
    270
    Likes Received:
    477
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Yup!! Sad, but true!
     
  4. Rentier

    Rentier Avatar

    Messages:
    915
    Likes Received:
    1,303
    Trophy Points:
    105
    Location:
    Dragomir Mori
    *screams* "oh NOOOO" :eek:
    "vial B is back - beware the house might explode anytime..."

    edit: Oh good to know you sold it :oops:

    but I don't understand why you didn't build a bigger house on the village lot and make one floor to your crafting area with all the stuff you need?
     
  5. majoria70

    majoria70 Avatar

    Messages:
    10,158
    Likes Received:
    24,639
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    United States
    No i don't think we should make too many tax-free changes at this late date. I was sorry that it happened that way about housing but the fact is there would have been no game without housing and player owned towns driving it forward.

    Too many already bought their tax-free with real cash and many i hear even bought them as an investment. So making them obtainable in game isn't going to happen. There would be a revolt.

    I do understand that everyone wants all game options to be available through the game but crowdfunding is a very tough business and luckily we got the game due to many opening their wallets to fund it so far. We still need that to happen more to keep funding it. That is what is important to me. I haven't always liked all decisions but some just happened and now if you want tax-free or luck will let you obtain them other than buying.

    I really did want taxes lowered across the board and to making it happen weekly not daily but at least taxes got lowered with row deeds.

    So we have raffles and rare loot drops with taxed deeds and I've even seen players win tax-free at a charity event, or through a livestream. Perhaps you place an inn on a taxed village and get creative with rooms there to earn rent there to maintain it.

    Having an event once fishing is updated that a fish swallowed a tax-free deed and other things off the add on store would be awesome as a reward for playing to a few players. Such as catching a fish and when you cut him opened you find that tax-free deed. Of course it says you look closer and there is something suspicious about this fish and you decide to cut it open to check.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2018
  6. Jimmy Cliff

    Jimmy Cliff Avatar

    Messages:
    156
    Likes Received:
    242
    Trophy Points:
    18
    i almost won a tax free deed at a player run event, that was the closest i came to owning a home. i sold enough igg and loot drops and crafted material for PP that i could probably buy a tax free home, but i do not see that as being a wise move for me.

    this game has an inverted pyramid economy and housing is based solely on large payments of real money to portalarium. it is probably the main detractor for the games popularity growth. for real estate to hold any real value, there has to be more have nots than haves, and this game really does not appeal to the have nots. i can say this because 100% of my pre launch testing consisted of role playing as a $40 peasant.
     
    Graemalkyn likes this.
  7. Scoffer

    Scoffer Avatar

    Messages:
    906
    Likes Received:
    2,651
    Trophy Points:
    93
    The last tax free village deed I got was bought with in game gold.

    To clarify, this was from a vendor. No real money transaction was involved.
     
    Alioth, Nikko and Woodchuck like this.
  8. kaeshiva

    kaeshiva Avatar

    Messages:
    3,053
    Likes Received:
    11,729
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Gender:
    Female
    Tax free is something player can achieve over time - you can use the igg to cash exchange with a player - but farming gold, selling it for cash, and then using that cash to buy bundles is already possible.

    Buying tax free deeds for igg from players is also possible if you want to skip that step - I've gotten nearly all of my property this way. In the second instance you don't even have to fiddle with RMT, though admittedly I expect the person who sells you a deed for gold is going turn around and sell that gold, but that's their business. Tax free properties are absolutely accessible via playing the game, it just takes a lot longer to earn enough gold for one than for a taxed one...which is as it should be.
     
    Alioth, Nikko, Cordelayne and 5 others like this.
  9. golruul

    golruul Avatar

    Messages:
    317
    Likes Received:
    660
    Trophy Points:
    43
    You can buy tax-free deeds with gold from other players. I never did so myself, but I see them offered.

    As always with MMOs: money or time, which is more important to you? Sounds like money is more important to you. That means you'll have to spend more time grinding gold.
     
    Nikko and Woodchuck like this.
  10. Deana Beretta

    Deana Beretta Avatar

    Messages:
    68
    Likes Received:
    159
    Trophy Points:
    8
    OK, forget tax-free. How could a new player obtain a taxed village deed (if they thought they could afford one)? A taxed town deed? There's a raffle, but that's nothing reliable. If you put money into the raffle, you cannot afford rent. It really feels like cash is the only way to obtain housing. If that's the case, you're not going to be able attract any new players (another issue that seems to come up often in these forums). I want to like this game (I did back it on kickstarter), but I'm finding it difficult.
     
    Jimmy Cliff and Woodchuck like this.
  11. golruul

    golruul Avatar

    Messages:
    317
    Likes Received:
    660
    Trophy Points:
    43
    I thought deeds were for sale via COTOs and obsidian crown merchants? Not at the game at the moment to verify, but if so, you can grind that gold, purchase COTOs from player vendors, then purchase the village deed from one of those obsidian merchants. No gambling required.

    Grinding all that gold is obviously the tedious part.
     
    Elwyn likes this.
  12. Albus

    Albus Avatar

    Messages:
    512
    Likes Received:
    1,047
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Gender:
    Male
    You can get (for in game gold) a taxed POT deed that can only be placed in POTs now, without having to try the lottery. For place anywhere deeds that is not the case, but I do like that you can get some kinds of deeds with in-game gold directly from NPC vendors.

    **edit to correct, as golruul above says you must buy or find the COTO's first but then you can use theses for the POT lot deeds**
     
  13. Browncoat Jayson

    Browncoat Jayson Legend of the Hearth

    Messages:
    6,334
    Likes Received:
    14,096
    Trophy Points:
    153
    I don't think rent-free is should be available outside of pledges/bundles/add-on store. However, I think rent-reduction should be an effect that you can get during gameplay.

    Maybe a letter of debt forgiveness, or a letter of marque, etc, something that when you use it will apply so many days of rent to your property. (Because this is measured in days, it will be more useful for players with higher rent properties, but not useless for all players.)
     
    Applerust likes this.
  14. majoria70

    majoria70 Avatar

    Messages:
    10,158
    Likes Received:
    24,639
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    United States
    It would just take time then. Imagine winning a city deed from the raffle that you could trade for a couple of village size or so or trade for town. Taxes would be bad on a town size unless you have developed some in game gold making strategies. I would at least play the lottery a little if you can in the meantime. One big sized lot win would solve a lot of problems and be a tradeable or nice sellable options.
     
  15. Thwip

    Thwip Avatar

    Messages:
    360
    Likes Received:
    881
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Montana
    Take down the Pay-Wall and let the players in!!!
     
    matsutaki, Cordelayne and Jimmy Cliff like this.
  16. kaeshiva

    kaeshiva Avatar

    Messages:
    3,053
    Likes Received:
    11,729
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Gender:
    Female
    It doesn't actually take that long to work your way into owning a taxed village. IGG wise they are quite reasonable, and prices usually dip after lottos when there are more going 'round. Ask around, check forums/vendors, and save your pennies. Earning 'gold' in the game needs to be a goal, though - if you want to get a house sooner, stop buying recipes, consumables, and overpriced gear. Find a nice group of folks to play with who will make you stuff for fair exchange of materials, get you on your feet, then go kill things and take their stuff and sell it to your local blacksmith. Low level scenes are actually a lot better, income-wise, than high lvl scenes as the loot scaling in Sota isn't great - soltown/solania catacombs are great money and not too difficult. I wouldn't think it would take more than a couple weeks of playing to earn yourself a taxed village, and I don't mean 12 hour caffeine sessions either.
     
    Woodchuck likes this.
  17. Floors

    Floors Avatar

    Messages:
    4,270
    Likes Received:
    6,624
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Hey, some of us paid a huge amount of money for essentially what amounted to a bunch of useless things (because everything that came out later was better... anyone want my "worthless" silver serpent necklace ? etc. ?)

    So the ONLY things worthwhile we got were the deeds and I guess the OG housing, although all the later housing in the store again, was better. So, no, don't change it.

    I did the math, and it basically has cost me 7 dollars an hour for every hour I've played the game.

    Like they say with Luxury watches... if you want something nice... It's gotta hurt ! We can't just give away the crown jewels to every Johnny B. Casual out there.
     
    Cassandra Corax, Woodchuck and Elwyn like this.
  18. Dermott

    Dermott Avatar

    Messages:
    761
    Likes Received:
    1,346
    Trophy Points:
    105
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Florida
    Disclaimer: I have a tax-free Village deed/home due to building myself up to Citizen Status via Kickstarter and afterwards.

    Personally, and not due to my own holdings, I would rather the Devs keep Tax Free deeds as funding rewards/purchases. That's how they were marketed and that's how they should stay. As stated above, they ARE tradeable and not Account Bound, so it IS possible to get one with in game gold if you find the vendor and have the gold to pay for it. There are also ways to fairly quickly build up gold ingame as well (granted it's not UO-level Monty Haul, but if you're willing to do the "work", you can make the $$$. It's just as easy or easier to grind the gold to buy CotOs from player vendors as well.

    I'm not sure how forward paying property taxes work, but I would hope you can dump as much gold as you can to keep a house paid for as long as you can.

    As for the "money grab", there are aspects of the game that NEED to be Cash-based in order for the game to continue its progress. Like it or not, our simply logging in and playing doesn't pay the bills to keep the office at Portalarium open, nor does it pay the people who work there (except in personal pride in their work, but that does not put food on the table). That much should have been made clear in the past week or so.
     
  19. majoria70

    majoria70 Avatar

    Messages:
    10,158
    Likes Received:
    24,639
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    United States
    Well this game is totally crowd funded so that won't happen well unless the game got a huge investor. Now since The devs offer everyone property now from doing Quests no one is left out. What they do next is up to them. Also in some towns like in wizards rest we offer all residents even those in my Inn use of the planting beds and the commission free vendor so everyone can have their special place in the game.
     
    Chatele, Elwyn and CatherineRose like this.
  20. Onyx

    Onyx Avatar

    Messages:
    464
    Likes Received:
    1,219
    Trophy Points:
    55
    @Deana Beretta Town and City deeds were intended to be used by guilds and other groups. The developers did not intend that individual players would earn enough gold to pay taxes on them. The tax free deeds came from folks spending (sometimes rather large) sums of money to help get this game developed. You expect the Portalarium staff to build this game for free? I would not expect to see anyone sell a deed that came with a package that he/she spent over $1000 to $3000 on to sell it in game and rather doubt that playing the game will ever get the kind of gold needed to purchase in game with gold. There are, however, some pretty large homes that fit on a Village lot.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.