Shroud of the Avatar Manual

I was just wondering because it says it in the manual screenshots lol.

 

Completely agreed on both points.

Please separate the lore from the play guide!

Replacement Docs has PDFs of almost every Ultima manual, cluebook, play guide, etc.

 

All you lucky people that get a manual! That's awesome

 

Any new information about the manual, @Scottie?

 

What did they say in the community livestream...? I missed it.

 

I'd like to second (third, fourth...) the suggestion that the lore be separated from the UI / game-y bits. Take a look at Ultima IV -- that's what I'd love to see SotA strive for. Quality paper, beautiful art (the spell book is my favorite manual ever), wonderful lore.

 

Hello there everyone!

This thread has covered all kinds of thoughts, opinions, and suggestions, so forgive me if I'm not able to cover them all...

Firstly, allow me to say, thank you for the compliments,...concerning both elements of this Manual's layout, as well as for the quality of the books you folks seemed to love for Ultima IX, which I helped Origin's "Creative Services" department design as part of my duties as art director for that game.

As a lover of all things "authentic-looking" from a standpoint of fictional immersion, I truly wanted to bring as much of that into the Adventurer's Manual as I could, from at least a "look and feel" perspective... I love visuals of old parchment, sepia ink, and hand-drawn borders... And, of course, bringing Denis in for his particular illustrative style was a must! ^_^

But based on the elements promised during the Kickstarter, budgetary limitations, and the fact that we don't have an entirely separate Creative Services department at our disposal,...Dallas, Starr, and Richard decided to provide a manual that, like Earl Atogrim mentioned of the Warcraft 2 manual, is purposefully meant to be a mesh of a bit of lore at the beginning, followed by an overview of our game's player directions. Of course I'm going to make it as beautiful as I can, but at the end of the day regardless of the fictional flavor added to the language of the player instructions found within, our manual will contain merely a very brief overview of world lore as an introduction to the book (three and a half pages, to be more precise), with the remaining 22 and a half interior pages being a simplified overview of the full Player Guide found on our online site.

I know this may be a bit of a disappointment to some who might want to see recreations of the same kind of booklets Origin once offered, but this manual, much like our game itself, is meant to be an amalgamation of the old and the new; a "spiritual successor", but a successor none-the-less, with new choices pertaining to content delivery and user experience.

Aside from the essentials discussed above, I'll try to address some of the earlier comments made...

As with a number of game manual covers we looked at while deciding on what our cover should look like, we decided to merely re-purpose Denis' box-cover art to suit the booklet's format... As such, it already has the game logo you describe, and so,...yes...we have repeated that logo on the right-hand side of the first spread when you open the book... As I mentioned above, since this isn't meant to be a manual of lore trying to maintain fictional "immersion" throughout (what with floating icons, charts, graphs, and other such game-related internal graphics), I began early with visual indications of the amalgamation of lore and game-related directions... For instance, directly to the left of the page, at the bottom of "page 1", is a disclaimer that essentially says; "The content of this Adventurer’s Manual is merely a small taste of the full Player Guide found on our site. The Player Guide is your resource for learning everything about how to play the game! Here we’ve provided information on what is available in the current build of the game for you to explore, test, and give feedback. For further detailed instructions go to: (insert final site here)"...

We contracted Gina (Lady FireLotus) to write the text of our manual (lore, player instructions, and all), and Richard specifically asked her to provide the introductory lore as if delivered from an in-game "personal perspective"... In doing so, she assumed the mantle of Lady FireLotus and signed it as such in her original text... Since then there has been debate as to whether to leave it as if presented by FireLotus (as a hats-off to her), or to instead have the introduction by Arabella as you indicated (which might make more sense to the general audience), and that decision is still up in the air as of this moment...

These are all good points, and I'll bring these things up as change requests/suggestions! ^_^

Like I mentioned above, to match the expectations indicated by the Kickstarter, and to stay within our design/budgetary constraints, we really can't have a completely separate booklet just for lore (that would be entirely separate writing project with a scope that we simply can't include as part of the promised Collector's Box)... The manual as it currently is,... does at least treat that "lore-rich" introduction separately from the remaining instructional content, but the Adventurer's Manual then slips into a player's guide for the remainder of the book. The logo, of course, establishes our "brand" as a separate entity from Richard's games of the past (despite being a "spiritual successor"), and so it will appear quite frequently... I will ask, however, if management would like us to add yet another piece of contracted art from Denis to fill that upper half-page instead of the logo...and see what they say... I can make no promises, though...

Worry not, proof-reading is something we intend to do before getting them printed... If you could please, list the five errors you spotted so that we can specifically find and fix them if necessary... Also, all of you may have a chance to do more than that! Dallas has discussed with Mathew (Berek) about placing the most recent PDF version of the entire manual online in "Dev +", as we did with the World Map, to see what other errors our community may find... That kind of thing can be very helpful for a team our size! I'll let you know once it's up and ready for technical feedback...

We'll be touching upon this kind of stuff in the Adventurer's Manual, but as I mentioned above, the included manual is merely a taste of what we try to provide in the more expansive online Player's Guide... Eventually we need to get in there and clean that thing up a bit, and when we do we hope to make it easier to use and more visually pleasing... Not only is it meant to be the "official" go-to for expanded instructions, it's also meant to be updated as we continue to release new content. As indicated in the Kickstarter expectations about the Collector's Box contents, there will be a card containing the Runic alphabet, and it looks like we'll be adding some form of comprehensive list of keyboard/game commands to the other side of that which should be a useful reference...

This booklet is currently slated for a glossy cardstock cover with the inner pages having an "aqueous" (eggshell) finish coating to them... It may not please everyone, but it is somewhat "industry-standard" these days, and fits within the budget...

Good catch! We're in the process of going over everything Gina wrote to insure that every functional thing she mentions actually still works the way she thought it did... After we're done with that, I'll lay everything back out in the booklet again, let the QA team really give it a good look-over, and then we'll upload what we have into the Dev + area (like we did with the Map) to let folks pour over it to find other things like this that may have been overlooked...

_____________________

Anyway,...sorry if some of this is disappointing to hear (I'm a fan of more lore as well), but please know that, regardless of the information being conveyed in these items, I will be doing my VERY best to provide the highest level of layout and graphical quality I can manage, with as much of a "nod" to our fictional world as I can, based on the timeframe I have to accomplish all of this stuff, before sending it off to the manufacturers...

Sincerely, and with much respect...

Scottie ^_^

 

It is indeed disappointing as I definitely expected more from a Lord British Ultimate RPG as Richard Garriott stated in his treatise.
I simply can't help myself but think that the physical items are a nuisance for the team and now - to fulfill the Kickstarter promises and not annoy backers even more - the cheapest ways are sought. Sorry to say that.
The last announements from the team regarding bag mode, not being able to manage a POT in offline mode and the manual have all been deeply disappointing...

 

I'm a little disappointed about bag mode being removed, but I think they just made some key design choices that would now make it difficult to include. The way container item limits work mixed with container limits on the house etc.

For what little time we have left with bag mode, I'm hosting a container design contest right here on the forums. Feel free to participate!

 

I'm of the opinion that Kickstarter backers were all probably big Ultima fans, expected an Ultima style lorebook when they pledged, and wouldn't mind the costs and would think it was money well spent.

 

Sorry but this is a seriously huge bummer. Feels like the amount of Ultima-inspired "stuff" is getting smaller by the week.

I'm sure you will do the best you can with what you have.

first paragraph:
"with a basic assumption; if you" the semicolon should be a colon.

"you would one day find yourself here, however, ...." the comma after "here" should be a semicolon or period

"help you make sense where you now find yourself" should be "help you make sense of where you now find yourself"

third paragraph:
"destroy what civilization existed" Lose the extraneous quotes after existed.
I would also recommend adding a qualifier before or after civilization, like "what little civilization" or "what civilization that"... But that's just me

fifth paragraph:
"Since the great cataclysm" - lose the errant quotes. Also, this sentence should probably start a new paragraph.

 

I completely agree with redfish here... especially considering the minimum pledge to get said printed manual was like 125 bucks...

 

Yeah, while I understand budgetary considerations and such, it is a bit disappointing that the physical manual is so light on lore and of a more modern quality (not a good thing, manuals now-a-days are sad). Not only because the game play information is available online but that it will be sorely out-of-date eventually. I read through the classic Ultima manuals at least once a year but can't remember the last time I read through UO's. Also, the vast majority of players aren't going to get this manual, they'll have purchased a lower tier or post-KS. The ones that pledged $125+ for the physical tiers were certainly doing so expecting a classic Ultima type of manual, cloth map, etc. About that -- most modern "cloth" maps are tissue thin -- will SotA's cloth map be heavier cloth (with embroidered border) like the classic Ultimas or more like modern games' maps? Anyhow, I know this all comes across as negative, and I understand that decisions have already been made, but I am still excited about the final product. =)

 

You don't have to feel sorry to say that... It's understandable folks might feel that way...

I can honestly assure you, though, that I don't see the physical items as a nuisance... Having been involved with the production of those created for Ultima IX, and since I am already dealing with the production of physical goods for my own paper RPG company, I was the natural choice for trying to put all this together on our end here at Portalarium... It was an exciting honor to get to do so, and not only am I throwing myself into it heart and soul, but I'm actually taking time away from my own company's game production to give even more time to Portalarium to make it happen! It's a joy to work with Denis again, not just for the Manual illustrations, but also for the design talks concerning the proposed metal ankh we're including with the box, which will look quite beautiful!

All that being said, we do have a budget we must adhere to,...but the most constraining part of this process is, as I mentioned, a lack of the kind of Creative Service resources (an entire department's worth of staff specifically dedicated to the actual creation of final files used to make all this stuff) which we had in days-gone-by... This is not a one-man-show by any means since Richard, Dallas, and Starr (and many others) are all involved in the final decisions about what does and does not get done. But when it comes to the lion's share of the hands-on work to make all the files for the goods needed to send off to the manufacturers, I'm the one who's been set to the task,...and we simply don't have the budget that EA once had to throw at this kind of thing...

I understand... But the important thing to remember is that $125 was never meant to merely indicate the cost of producing a single manual for every person who made that pledge... Each and every pledge level was designed to help insure that making the game as a whole would become more and more possible as more people pledged... And though each pledge level also signified an additional "reward" that would be included with that pledge, the money for each level represents more than the cost of manufacturing the reward itself... It represents weeks and weeks of work (for a production run of merely 10,000 manuals) by myself, by Gina, by the numerous people providing input here in the office... It represents new art and screenshots carefully taken, and illustrations contracted from Denis... It represents a portion of the shipping that must happen as each Collector's Box is shipped (potentially from Germany) to all the individuals who will receive them across the world...

And that's ONLY taking the cost of the reward for that pledge level into account... Of course the rest of the money for that pledge went directly into creating the game itself, as a whole...

Yes,...those first two were some big bombshells to drop... Starr knew this going into it, but for this attempt at me merely trying to answer the concerns I was seeing pop up, it feels like the concerns are based more on expectations derived from fond memories of some of Origin's "products of old", which I certainly understand,...since I loved them myself... But the way Shroud works, there's no impetus for a physical Spellbook or Journal, and the lore of the world is meant to be experienced and expanded upon online as this new world is discovered... But let's look at all the other things we're putting in the box... Aside from this "newer style" players manual, for those who get the beautiful ankh, it will be fancier than anything Richard has ever provided with a boxed game. For those who get the cloth map, it will be as beautiful as any other recent one made, and more detailed than most. The various certificates (which I haven't designed yet) will be rich in detail as well, and will mimic the art in the game... You will have a CD containing our wonderful music, along with the installer. A cool Runic Language card with handy commands listed on the back will be available for some... Those receiving the retrospective booklet containing the story of Mondain and the notes for Akalabeth will be treated to a booklet containing the tableau art depiction of old-style gaming dice, scattered snacks, and a 1979 Formica table as the developing backdrop for all the scanned and stained images from way back in the gaming days of Richard's childhood! Heck, even the box itself has been sized to emulate the big ol' boxes that once contained Ultima Pagan and other titles from the good old days...

I'm hoping, with an understanding of all of this, that you all can find it in your hearts to give us the benefit of the doubt when it comes to the effort we're putting in to make the Collector's Box both fun and rewarding... The manual itself may not be everything you may have hoped for, but it was never meant to perfectly emulate the absolute best of what an entire Creative Services Department, and the deep pockets of EA and Origin, were capable of achieving back in the day... We are a leaner team, in leaner times,..but we are absolutely doing our best to make this something that you all can enjoy, while also something useful for those who've come to expect a more "mixed" style of modern manual, dressed in the artful designs of the old days...

Scottie ^_^

 

I can certainly understand why the manual is coming together as it is, but I do have to admit that I'm disappointed. A lot of the world-building, lore, and feel to the Ultima games were found between the pages of the manual, before you stepped foot through the moongate and into Britannia.

This is probably the biggest bummer to me. Only three and a half pages of "lore" to experience before a new player can jump into the game. Thats less than you can pull out of just the bestiary in Ultima 6. I assume this means the runic primer will not appear in the manual at all, just the separate print. Nothing about astronomy/cosmology. No primer about reagents, words of power, or the lore-based names of the magic schools. No overview of the towns, passes, dungeons, and towers. What about hints of the Ebon Cult, the Cabalists, and harkening back to the Obsidian Order? Is this all going to be assumed to be described enough in detail in-game? Currently, I'd have to say it is not, at least not to a casual player.

I'll certainly be willing to offer feedback if the manual is posted to Dev+, to make it the best it can be. And please don't take this personally, Scottie. Your work is impeccable, and I'm sure if we had the budget this would be more in line with what we could of hoped for. Maybe release will blow us all away, and we can commission a "Deluxe Edition" lorebook some day.

 

I have to say that for me as a player, the lorebook was always the best playguide. This is because it familiarized me with the world I was coming into, got me interested exploring, set expectations about what waas to come.

The actual play instructions were comparatively not so important, and I usually jumped in and learned as I went. A good UI/UX is intuitive, anyway, and tutorials come with beginning gameplay.

Which isn't to say I don't appreciate the feeling there's a need for play instructions, I just want to highlight the importance of lore in getting a player started, in bootstrapping the game experience. And I expect most players today, since they won't have the physical book in their hands, won't bother reading through it, but it would also be great to have more things like bestiaries, skill guides, descriptive atlases, etc in the game as book objects. The travel guides were a good start, but we need more. And I miss those efforts to get community created content in the game @FireLotus This would be just to make these things more upfront to players through the gameplay experience, rather than require them to dig for the information through their own initiative on wikis. I'll be happy to contribute books like this to the game, though I'm thinking this should be an official effort, since there's an offline mode, and those types of books are good to disseminate into NPC libraries in online. In U7, even finding books on potions, armor, weapons, etc in Trinsic as I started the game was helpful, and I collected these guidebooks in my inventory.

Something I was thinking about doing myself when I had the time and inclination was creating an app that would serve the function of a lorebook itself, so maybe this is something I'll get to sooner than later.

 

I truly appreciate that,...I really do, but honestly, no worries... I truly wanted to come and respond to all this because I hate to create disappointment with you fine folks, and I do want to reassure you that we honestly are doing what we think is best for this, knowing that we can never hope to satisfy everyone all the time... It's a hard line to walk, sometimes, and nothing we do comes from a desire to do anything less than our best, within the limitations that confine us...

And as you all know, we're only human, and sometimes it takes hearing about disappointment to stoke the fires of creative problem-solving... For instance, I spoke with Dallas about this earlier today, mentioning the concerns and the expectations, and as part of those discussions we're already talking about changes and additions we want to make to our available online content to make sure players have easy access to even more useful information (such as the Runic language guide) in a more "official capacity" (or at least in the form of making my designs for the insert card, that only some people will get with the box, available as a downloadable PDF that ANY player can access to reference or print out as they desire)... I'm sure we'll be doing it with other content as well eventually, such as the fun booklet of the handwritten pages of Mondain and Akalabeth notes (which I'll be sharing a peek at it with you all soon)... And if I can, I'll eventually do what I'm able to help update and artistically invigorate the full-length Player Guide online to include whatever updated elements that we present in the truncated version of the printed Adventurer's Guide included in the Box...

And @redfish, perhaps later, once things settle down for me with all the physical goods and the energetic days before the final "launch", I'll find a way to convince them to let me help to put together some form of ever-growing in-game lore repository... After all, I'd love there to be a more comprehensive take on the lore I helped cook up surrounding Xenos, and the entire western part of the world spoken of only fleetingly in the Sword of Midras... I KNOW that the @Mad Hatter would love to see that come to life, and have his own portions he contributed included as well! There are still MANY stories that need telling, and there's so much lore than we've merely been able to brush upon while creating this game... I, too, would love to see us be able to take the time to truly flesh it out in a satisfying and "officially presentable" way... I can't promise anything, of course, because we don't honestly have the resources to devote to that type of thing yet,...but it is my ardent hope that we will...

Deep bows to you all...

Scottie ^_^

 

Thank you for all of these! I'll absolutely look and these and make the necessary fixes, now that Gina has made her final changes, and unlocked the file for us to take and edit on our end...

Scottie ^_^

 

@Scottie Thabk you for the honest update and discussion. The following comments are not against you but a general statement how I feel.

I am very disappointed by the decision to basically add limited lore to a shortened version of the play guide. UI, commands, game graphics change - a printed manual risks to be outdated. The lore and “mood” text however remains valid as long as the game is online. (I still have fond memories of the U5/U6 bestiaries, descriptions of reagents and the different cities)

Also I do not agree with the “budget” explanation. The trinkets and manual were perks for the higher level pledges - I don’t think any person spending that amount of money needs a nice Print-out of an online play guide. If the budget is now short it’s a sign of bad budgeting. Yet another letdown with regards to Ultima’s history.

 

We'll forgive you scottie if that lore intro is done incredibly well, I havent read any books so I have almost no idea about the lore of the world and feel daunted every time I log in. I really don't know why I am there or how I got there. I mean, if the Ultima Online trailer dialogue was put into text, then yeah I would understand whats going on, so it can be done, So I think if you guys can nail that intro then you could probally nail that text used in a cinematic.

To launch without a new trailer would be disappointing, even if its just a simple audio visual supplemented version of that lore intro. It needs to drip with curiosity and a bold challenge!