Since the Combat Survey is Over, Will We Be Able to View the Results?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Ravicus Domdred, Apr 26, 2017.

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  1. melonjelly

    melonjelly Avatar

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    You have put into words my feelings! I feel like I am fighting the hotbar, while enemies leap at me at my face. The hotbar becomes a distraction while I try to stay alive, which makes me very disheartened. Immersion, poof! Out the door with a heavy kick in the bottom.

    I've been using a fixed deck (despite being shafted on cool-downs and efficiency) and I can actually re-immerse myself as I'm no longer having mini panic attacks over six dozen things needing not only my gaze but my immediate, attentive micro-management.

    I am not a developer and can't claim to know what is best for anything in regards to the game, and can only offer my own experiences. Perhaps I am even just whiny, but it is agony using the random deck for myself, and I begrudgingly twiddle with the lackluster and glyph claustrophobic fixed system.

    My only issues with the targeting is that the indicator is very small and difficult to see, and also that many of the spells (here's looking at you soothing rain and elysian illumination) completely blind my screen and field of vision with heavily saturated particle effects. Given the development status of the project, I think it's (the targeting) on the right tack and will surely be improved.
     
  2. Serena Strangelove

    Serena Strangelove Avatar

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    I think Chris wanted feedback from all types of players at all skill levels - we are all important. It sounds like you are enjoying playing the game in its different iterations and watching the development process in action. I feel the same way :)
     
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  3. melonjelly

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    That is a wonderful response and I would like to think he was intending the same. I am very combat-orientated in games I choose to spend my time in, however I honestly loved that for example within my beloved UO (shameless I know) you had players that could go about not ever participating in combat at all and still feel genuinely fulfilled by their experiences.
     
  4. Earl Atogrim von Draken

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    Where did you pull this number from?
     
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  5. eli

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    Adding the input of people who haven't played with the r38 focus regeneration, with the r40 deck glyph cooldown nerf, r37+ gear MW/E, artifacts, against T6+ mobs, etc. will reduce the overall quality of results.

    So while I agree that the way the survey was conducted produced results which were more biased, I think it is a good call as they are far more relevant. Bias is a lot easier to isolate than ignorance.

    Now that you don't get better cooldown times for unlocked glyphs, the competitiveness with locked decks is close to parity. The only advantage unlocked decks have now is A) the limited number of 10 slots is more manageable B) the focus/chaos spells mean you can cast more spells per unit time assuming you can cast 10 spells faster than your average glyph cooldown and C) you can repeat the same spell more often.

    I think it's worth noting that these disparities can be almost fully addressed just by adding a second bar.
     
  6. Freeman

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    In the original comment he said that the it was a u shape leaning slightly negative.

    So, we know that more were negative, and based on his number of 60.9 included the middle and the pro side, we can also know that the middle and the negative side are higher.

    It's a trick people use with polls. They include the middle towards the side they want, but that's not a fair assessment.
     
  7. Preachyr

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    Wasnt going to hop in this conversation but I need to point out something you are (hopefully not intentionally) leaving out which makes this info misleading.

    Most people who hated the combat system have already quit playing or paying attention to the game. I challenge anyone to go back to the archives and.look at the feedback for release 7, 8, 9, 10 which is around the time it was first proposed and implemented. The majority of people didn't like it then, and the majority of people didn't like it over the next 5 or 10 releases.

    Plenty of feedback and suggestions for better systems were proposed over that time, which were mostly ignored. We were promised that if the system was not fun for most people, it could and would be replaced. The system was not fun for most people, but it was not replaced and never hinted that it wohld be replaced. This drove many people away from the game.

    Even after that, it is still split 50/50 on like and dislike, which, considering how many who disliked it left already, is pretty darn awful!!

    You have listed on the webpage something like 62k backers of this game. You have around 1000 (being extremely generous) currently playing.

    Want a complete look at what people think of the combat, or any aspect of the game? Send a survey out through email to all backers instead of leaving it open 48 hours buried in a forum section that most people don't check.
     
  8. Autumn Willow

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    Just to toss my view on combat in while waiting for a new poll to be brought up.
    • I think the current combat system is unique
    • I like card games so deck building is actually somewhat enjoyable for me.
    • I devote more attention to the hot bar than the actual screen when playing SotA. The attention to hotbar:screen ratio is about 7:3 but vice versa in most other games.
    • I'm paying less attention to any cool stuff that could be happening on screen. I consider myself proficient in multitasking and relatively alert in games so this could be a lot worse for other players.
    • I think the amount of attention needed to manage and stack cards creates a big flaw in the combat system.
    • Due to that, I don't think it's a good system.
    • I personally wouldn't quit the game over the flawed combat system. It's not flawed to the point where I think it's severely detrimental to my enjoyment of the game.
     
  9. Thwip

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    I was one who gave the combat a bad score.
    When I first started playing, I haaaated the combat. I was dumbfounded that anyone could think this was a good idea, and actually quit for a time. Now, after improvements, I admit I have found the enjoyment in the system, but I still don't like it.

    One flaw was cards popping up in random locations. This was solved (Yaaay!) with the updated system we have now.
    I believe another flaw is that the cards keep disappearing. It is fun to design a deck, and fun to combine cards. It is fun to progress in skills to get more cards to use. It is fun to collect all the cards. :D
    It is NOT fun to micromanage disappearing cards popping up in random locations while trying to fight. I believe combat to be at 50%, and the solution to making combat 100% includes removing the disappearing cards.

    It would be awesome if Port could find a way to keep the deck system, but remove the decaying glyphs.
     
  10. Superbitsandbob

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    Is there a reason this survey was not advertised more and hidden away in a low traffic part of the forum? Seems counter intuitive.

    As a combat person, in it's current form it's probably the most unsatisfying system I have played although one with potential.

    Encounters consist of fast DPS races where I spend all of the fight looking at the skills bars. There is almost zero need or ability to use any kind of tactics. Strangely Death, although considered over-powered currently, has some of the most interesting magic based gameplay with you needing to balance life/focus drain. Pretty much everything else is a case of just pushing buttons as quickly as possible. Combat is also not very challenging. I've taken to pulling the biggest groups of mobs I can while staying alive just for some challenge.

    Melee oddly seems the most satisfying when you consider how many magic schools there area. Bludgeon and some of the shield and heavy armour skills at least give you the option to feel as though you have some control over a fight with knock down and stuns. Swords and polearms feel different enough to warrant them although both need more utility skills.

    Maybe it's the way I am playing but with very few exceptions, all of the combat feels the same quick whack-a-mole race to out DPS the mobs with little control over the fight or tactics required. I wonder if slowing the combat down a bit might help but the tree's need more options. I know it's a different approach but looking at EQ classes like the Enchanter, Bard, Necromancer etc really couldn't hurt. Even the Bard, Tamer and Magic from UO. At the moment the combat is bordering on an FPS.

    Example's for the Earth tree as that is what I am currently leveling. Maybe increase the time of Root and other CC skills in other tree's. Maybe a damage shield, some type of stun or knock down added to Stone Fist. An AOE root?

    The mobs themselves are frankly just dull to fight.

    The one shining light is the deck system. Lot's of potential to be great (as someone who loves CCG's) but wasted in the current state of combat.
     
  11. majoria70

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    I always click *what's new*. That way you don't miss things. As soon as I'm done with a thread I click what's new to see what's new. I didn't know that when I first got here so just for any who don't do that it's a tip to keep you in the loop. Too late now for those who missed the survey.
     
  12. Superbitsandbob

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    Thanks for that but it is something that is very important and should have been advertised though even if only on Twitter and Facebook. Although it's good to ask for feedback it's feels a bit as though the intention was to get feedback from a certain demographic.

    To add to my post above maybe the issue is just the challenge. If you increase crowd control spells and duration's and slow down combat, changes in the combat and XP gain are required to balance this. Even in dungeons there seems to be little danger. Mobs are spread out so that fighting 1 or 2 at a time is common and they go down very easily. Do mobs need more HP's, more abilities. Do we need larger camps of mobs with more variety in how they fight? Mages still seem to only use fire spells. Why?

    At the moment I feel I am being challenged by myself I guess and not the game.
     
  13. Womby

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    My problem with the current combat system is the lack of player agency. To explain what I mean by that, let's compare archery in SotA versus archery in Skyrim.

    In SotA, if I hit the target it is because a random number generator decided that I should hit the target. It has nothing to do with me as a human being, or any skill I might have (yes, it is influenced by a "skill" that my avatar has, but that's just a number that I levelled up). Consequently I get no feeling of accomplishment from hitting the target.

    In Skyrim, if I hit the target it is because I am familiar with the strength of the bow that I am using - that is, how far above the target I should aim with this bow to be able to hit it at a given distance; it is also because I know how far ahead of a moving target to aim to ensure that the target and projectile end up at the same place at the same time. If I hit a distant moving target I feel a genuine sense of accomplishment. My success is my reward for a skill that I as a human being have developed, rather than some "skill" that my avatar has levelled up.

    That's player agency, and that's why I am not a fan of random number generators being used in combat. I realise SotA cannot copy the combat in Skyrim with only a fraction of the budget, but that doesn't mean they can't follow the same principles of enabling player agency. For example, currently a random number generator decides which cards appear. What if that was changed so that you could use any card you liked, but each card could only be used a certain number of times per minute. Suddenly you are in charge of an interesting tactical decision. Should I use up my best card now, or hang onto it in case the situation gets worse? That's just one example of placing the decision in the hands of the player.
     
  14. Earl Atogrim von Draken

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    Interesting approach.
    Not sure I agree but that's a guts feeling and I am too lazy to read it up. Always sucked at statistics. Almost didn't pass my statistics exam back in the days, lol.
     
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  15. Wintermute of CoF

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    I think one of the main problems is that with the (essentially) random targetting it's very difficult to implement any sort of strategy.

    This 100%. If mobs had variety then Port wouldn't be wasting time doing counter-intuitive things like making fire elementals vulnerable to fire and earth elementals vulnerable to earth.

    Then you should play some sort of FPS to get combat satisfaction, try Chivalry. I play RPGs because it's my character's skills that matter more than my own reflexes.
     
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  16. mercster

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    I like the random card combat system. I think it simulates the rush and chaotic nature of combat in the real world. Thanks @Chris !
     
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  17. Grumpy Krabnevir

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    I disagree with this completely, if our military had to fight using random combat, we would be the laughing stock of the world.
     
  18. mercster

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    If I spent time explaining why this is a horrible analogy, MY FINGERS WOULD LITERALLY FALL OFF!

    SHAZAM!
     
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  19. Grumpy Krabnevir

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    Riiiight! Let's just keep it as it is, after all, the hordes of people who left and the majority of the ones who answered the poll were against it, and that just leaves more housing spaces for us, right?
     
  20. Grimbone

    Grimbone Bug Hunter

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    I don't like it. I end up looking at my bar a lot more instead of the full screen. Just my 2 cents.
     
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