Since the Combat Survey is Over, Will We Be Able to View the Results?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Ravicus Domdred, Apr 26, 2017.

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  1. Wintermute of CoF

    Wintermute of CoF Avatar

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    UO and Skyrim were the most liked combat systems listed on the survey. You didn't list any games where I really like the combat, though most of those would be impractical for an MMO I'm sure. I would have mentioned it in the comments, but I was too busy complaining about the targeting :)
     
  2. Sentinel2

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    I've stacked enough skills in some of my decks that you can't see the top skills anymore. It's difficult to add or remove more.

    Perhaps we can have the deck changed to rotate through a stack? Or is that already there. I haven't found it yet.
     
  3. GreyMouser Skye

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    I am sorry, but I do not think we are talking about the same mechanic. Or I missed something, sorry.
     
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  4. 3devious

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    I still say tht I hated it at first and then when it looked like you refused to see reason I at least found telling @Lord British and @DarkStarr that I didn't like it cathartic. Just like I accepted the low frame rate (a sin as detestable as putting nuts in baked goods I learned to deal with it like a macadamia nut Ina dark chocolate cookie. Now that I even manage to play the game and not look like like I have such a cookie definiling my mouth, you seem open to reason. I gotta say that Imma still bribe the baby to punch you in the junk.
    It doesn't suck as bad as getting punched in the junk by a baby but I still don't have a better idea other than making it work like EQ2. Well I'm used to it now so whatever. Little Baby Spears can earn some extra cash from Aunt Caska any time.
     
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  5. redfish

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    Yea -- earlier in development, I suggested being able to do same-glyph combos, like turn a Gust into a Great Gust. It wouldn't simply add power, but create a new effect, like fan out in a greater range so to hit more enemies.

    If the only aim is to increase power -- in earlier releases, stacking -- even though it did not provide a combo effect -- did increase power, but people found it too OP and believed it forced players into using stacking. As it currently stands, you don't really need to use stacking at all unless you want to conserve Focus. If you're at zero Focus, if you stack some glyphs, you can use them sooner. To make same-glyph combos meaningful while not forcing them on players, you would have to add new effects, not just more power. And stacking can extend much more than a single combo can, because you can stack not only 2, but 3, and 4, and 5. So stacking is more practical in some regards.

    The main benefit as I see it of a combo approach over stacking is pretty much immersion more than anything. Its stacking which I think the most makes it feel like a card game to some people. While combos are more understandable from an immersion perspective, because you're creating new effects, and not just stacking cards.

    The closest thing I see to a working auto-combo btw is to be able to pre-bake combos and put them in your hand ahead of time. Otherwise, you'd need a method to make combos in real time that didn't rely on random draw.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2017
  6. Jouten

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    It is the furthest thing from appearing true. On top of that they're restricting the players by design through RNG instead of by player choice. No player likes restriction and letting randomness dictate what skills they can use in a WASD combat environment. If this was tile based or turn based I could agree to it, but since this is live and has instantaneous actions then no. The flow of the game has constant movement and hotbars with cooldowns and positionals. Since actions do not restrict movement everyone is floating all over the place and strafing. If the combat was slowed down, so that every action has an impact, then we can simulate those realistic approach to those skills. Those outside of the 60.9% are not part of the echo chamber and we've been clamoring for something better since the deck system was introduced.

    Also there is a practical amount of programming that can simulate every skill against every other action. If combat is slowed down you could record the each skill having a variant that could oppose it. A high attack can be countered by a low attack but only if the opponent is fast enough and vice versa (this is keeping in mind that the overall combat itself is slowed down). The person doing the high attack could cancel that attack and get out of measure and hit with a different attack as the person who was originally in the low attack fell into that trap. However, this can be switched out with the person who was doing the low attack who fell for the feint of the high attack can reposition into a thrust after performing the low attack. Mmmm... sounds like... most fighting games I've played.

    So I say remove the hotbars in general. Refocus the attacks to have high targets, medium targets, and low targets. Add light attacks and strong attacks to go for those targets and add special skills that you "learn" when performing certain actions or action input. Give the ability to cancel out of a strong attack allow us to grab our opponents. Have variants based on the type of weapon you have and give them different characteristics like speed and reach and power. Give us the ability to sidestep or dash and allow us to parry attacks if we parry the correct direction but leave us open for attacks if we mess up.

    At least that's what I'd like, but I like fighting games and I fence so...yeah.
     
  7. Baene Thorrstad

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    First off, I'm not part of any "echo chamber", I like what I like. Just because it's different than what you like, there's no need to make me sound like a drooling yes man.

    Second, going the route you offer, you end up with combat that is primarily "twitch combat", which I despise. It hurts my wrists, and becomes just as much "whack a mole" as hotbar combat, just a different visual, requiring much higher reflexes and hand eye coordination.

    I'm all for Chris pulling off the ability to make locked botbars more competitive, but please, no twitch combat. I'm too old for that..
     
  8. Freeman

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    You said that negatives edged out positives. Which means over 60.9 percent of people either want it gone or won't miss it.

    No one is tell you to take away their combat, we're saying you could make something different but better that isn't divisive and would have better user support. Removing it wouldn't mean that every one of that 25% stops liking combat as their favorite feature.

    As always, there are lies, damn lies and statistics. We can make numbers say what ever we want.
     
  9. majoria70

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    And for me dragging is no fun. Combos should flash at least and combine themselves magically with an easy option like spacebar when they are lit up.
     
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  10. Dhanan

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    I never knew that combos could combine with dragging. I've always just tapped their hot-bar numbers to combine them.
     
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  11. Baene Thorrstad

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    A helpful tip, just in case you didn't know:
    You can combo and stack with the keyboard too, and there are two different ways.
    1) press the R key, then the keys for the two slots you want to stack/combo.
    2) press and hold the key for the first slot you want, then tap the key for the second slot and let go of both keys.

    In both above cases, it will stack/combo on the second slot you choose.

    If you did already know about this, please disregard my intrusion :)
     
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  12. redfish

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    But then you have to figure out how the game would deal with it if you can create two different combos with the same glyph. In the future they plan to add far more combos, so this would be a common scenario in the future.

    Its far easier right now btw to combo with your keyboard than dragging with your mouse if you're in melee combat as @Baene Thorrstad explained. A suggestion I've made is it would be even easier if you can combo with a double-tap but I think input lag makes that unviable right now..
     
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  13. Jouten

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    You... weren't the one I quoted and that was just an overall statement to the folks who've just said "combat is great" and wasn't solely directed towards you. You've given feedback, same for Mugly Wumple... so... yeh.
     
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  14. GreyMouser Skye

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    Might be a unliked suggestion, but slowing combat would actually alleviate a lot. Allows time for counters, allows time for mouse fighters vs. WAXD fighters (I do not use S), and allows time to make combos (intentionally ignoring stacking).
     
  15. Baene Thorrstad

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    That's a much better way of stating who it was intended for. Thank you.

    Being inside the 60.9%, it sounded like I was being included.
     
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  16. majoria70

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    No I don't like the choices we have. Making it a timing thing as in Tera as well as no dragging or fumbling for it. I am still listening though thanks ;)
     
  17. Mugly Wumple

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    @Jouten
    I attempt to be illuminating, not argumentative. I'm not a PvPer and I am not very good at combat. I read these threads because I enjoy observing game development, not because I'm invested in combat. In fact, I didn't even feel qualified to take Chris's poll because whatever they give me I'll just klutz through and resign myself to never seeing the bottom of dungeons. Heck, I played UO for 11 years and still couldn't survive a dungeon.
    I'd have better success if battles were totally random. 1 in 20 chance of taking down a troll is still better than I'll ever manage.
     
  18. Jouten

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    @Mugly Wumple
    The combat you should be experiencing then shouldn't be the ones that give the best reward. Story content and items that require a time-investment should be accessible for those who are not good at combat, but for those who strive on combat shouldn't be playing a game that panders to the lowest skilled players and designs their end combat off of that. You should be able to go up to a boss that's meant for plot, handle a few of the basic mechanics, and hit the heavy attack a lot of times or cast the biggest spell you can and maybe succeed. But you shouldn't be applying that same mentality to fighting a boss for a very rare material or weapon/armor/treasure. Those fights are supposed to be exciting and awards the skilled. Items of the same value can be acquired by grinding but there'll be a clear delineator between what was acquired through skill and what was acquired through grind. Instead we have combat designed around people who are not competitive, where the combat is a matching game of cards and occasional charge up swings instead of creating an indepth combat system and removing mechanics so said groups can enjoy the game still. It's not exciting.
     
  19. CarlNZ

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    But your sample pool is biased towards those still paying, which biases the deck a bit. Maybe send the survey's out on email next time to get a more representative sample.
     
  20. Jouten

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    100% this. Get the real numbers. I didn't even take the survey cuz I didn't even know about it.
     
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