Stretch-Goal Store + Pledge = win/win

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Bohica, Jun 18, 2014.

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  1. Bohica

    Bohica Avatar

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    As we know recently a stretch goal store was opened so that members could put money twords development of certain features that they would like seen in the game. So far we can tell, things are not going so well. At the current rate of which the two stretch-goals are raising money, it would be a few years before any of them attained the required funding to pay for development.

    But then I also wonder what is the point of pledging? Isn't pledge money used to fund development? Why is every dollar spent on the stretch-goal store, not credited to a pledge? Why the separation of development funds at all? Can I ask Portalarium NOT to use my pledge money to fund development of systems I do not care about?

    If you truly want players to fund development of a certain feature, then I feel the two should not be separate.

    We are just forcing an already tapped out community to chose between the next pledge tier or a stretch-goal, and I believe pledge tiers will win every time.

    If we are allowed to have credit applied to our pledge for every dollar spent on a stretch goal, then i believe that we will actually fund one or two stretch goals. Portalarium gets the cash they need, and we actually get the features we want.
     
  2. herradam

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    There are some things I'd like here, but I haven't bought anything. I'd like a mount, but $20? No thanks. I'd like to *earn* something in game.
     
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  3. Vyrin

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    To me the stretch goals just seem like a unique way to sell add-ons. The problem you'd run into is then why not give pledge credit for all add-ons?

    I share your concern - I don't think the stretch goals are pulling in new pledgers and I suspect what's been raised so far was all from existing ones.

    Plus the last thing I want to do is to add more features to an already full plate of development. Even with more money, I'd just rather the things that have been promised be delivered.
     
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  4. Maxe

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    I'd prefer a removal of a zero on each stretch goal instead ;) ..as it is now they will never be met

    Merging pledges and stretch goals would create a huge problem because it wouldn't be fair to people who have already pledged.
    Someone buying say a Lord pledge now, could just spend his/her 1600$ in the stretch goal store and get a lot of in-game items in addition to Lord status... And someone who pledged Lord a year ago would be cheated and only get the items from the pledge.
     
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  5. Dame Lori

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    The stretch goal funds are needed outside of pledges to develop extra features. (That is the point of the store.) They are not going to use pledge funds for these systems - that is being used for the rest of the game. If funds outside of pledges are not provided, the features will not exist. If you want your pledge to go towards a stretch goal, then logically you would not get the pledge rewards, since you want that money to go towards the stretch goal specifically, and not the main game.
     
  6. Bohica

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    I would love to see what evidence that extra funds are needed to implement horses. Seriously, Kickstarter launched with a goal of 1 mill, only 1 mill was required to create a game. So here we are now, we are WELL over the 1 mill goal and you honestly think we need to raise ANOTHER 250k for mounts? Realy? If we can not implement mounts for episode 1 for an additional 3 mill+ then something is seriously wrong...... The stretch goal store is a slap in the face to loyal backers..... I am not a game designer, but how hard is it to honestly animate a horse that is pulled off the web (basically free by comparison from the unity store) and implement it in our lowly game?
     
  7. Guards

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    Are those stretch goal sliders updating? They haven't moved since I started following them about a week ago.
     
  8. Bohica

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    Here we are faced with "Obama tactics" of directing attention away from thing that matter. We are distracted with members crying and threatening to quit and mods defending allegations about wrongly modding forums posts. Let's get back on track and figure out what Portalaruim is doing with OUR $4,000,000 dollars..... certainly not implementing things we want.... Because the things we want cost Way over the additional $3,000,000 raised above the Kickstarter goal.
     
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  9. PrimeRib

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    Conceptually I like the idea of "voting" while making a pledge donation.

    But as I've said before, they're in sort of a mess now. In KS people donated lots of money just to see the game get funded. Post KS, people are looking at actual value for their dollar. And this gets weird because it's really hard to justify value for hundreds of dollars and yet not somehow be pay to win.
     
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  10. Kaisa

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    Initially I liked the idea behind the stretch goal stores but I now just don't see things working out. Worse I suspect that when episode 1 launches then comes and goes with no stretch goal *except if a miracle happens* actually being met. That there will be a lot of people feeling angry and cheated and demanding their money back.
     
  11. Sindariya

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    Why should you get the money, you spend on the stretch goal, get also on your pledge tier? You just buy some items in the store and if enough people do this, they will implement something in EP1. That's all. It is the same with the items in the add-on store. the only difference is, that you can't support a specific goal. sure it doesn't go as fast as they and we wish but so is life.
     
  12. Duke Gréagóir

    Duke Gréagóir Legend of the Hearth

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    I think that the stretch goal store is a great thing. I want a Celtic cloak I get it and know that helps others get to their elf race added.

    I want the pledge money to make the best game possible in ep 1. I want the stretch goals for future growth later. That makes sense to me. Kudos to Portalarium.
     
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  13. Duke Death-Knell

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    This makes sense.
     
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  14. Asclepius

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    My opinion. Nobody made me all-wise, but I probably know as much as anyone else around here;)

    Portalarium are trying to build a game. An awesome game. The best game they can. They started with relatively modest goals and a small team.

    Then the project accelerated. The number of supporters grew. And those supporters (us) wanted more things. Things like jumping, and swimming, that were not ever in the original brief.

    The developers listened to us, the community. Fortunately, the contributions (pledges) also grew. They had the money to hire extra staff. They now have a team of around 30. They can now do stuff like refining the graphics, adding extra content, towns etc. And we now have swimming and jumping. The graphics have been polished, and according to Lord British's estimation that polishing is only about half done - it will get even better.

    This has all been paid for with our pledges, and I personally do not regret or wish to rescind or redirect one cent of it. The game is going to be all the better and even more awesome because of the $4 million plus that has been raised.

    So the community wants even more stuff - horses, elves, boats, to name just three. All worthy goals, and desirable for the game. I can envisage the team having a brainstorming session and figuring out "what do you reckon that would cost, in terms of time (=wages), resources and infrastructure? And do we have the necessary staff to be able to spend time on it while the core game is being built?"

    In the end they came up with figures. It's just like saying "we would love to do this for you but all the current funds are committed to making the best game we can. If you want it enough, and support it, sure we can hire extra programmers, graphic artists etc to do the job - before R1 is released"

    Please people - before we start saying that pledges should be used for stretch goals, or both the game and stretch goals, could we accumulate a bit of knowledge? Like the balance sheet of Portalarium, and a detailed breakdown of their income and expenditure? Without that we're just blowing wind, and it doesn't help anybody.

    And I'm the first to admit that I don't have access to their balance sheet either, but unless I see really strong evidence I'm not willing to challenge the figures or make any other suggestions. I'll get behind it and support as much as I can.
     
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  15. Maxe

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    Don't forget people will still get the items, even if the goal isn't met.

    So I don't think f.ex. someone with celtic heritage spending 20$ on the elven cloak would feel cheated - even if it turns out it will only be a cosmetic item =)
     
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  16. Dame Lori

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    You really think all that is needed are horse animations? Besides the horses, the avatars will need to fit on the horse and be animated for such. Every bit of clothing would need to be checked. Cloaks would have to be programmed for sitting and riding. Collision detection while on a mount would probably be a pain to tackle in regards to terrain, buildings, entrances, other people, other mounts and animals. Can they jump? Go through water? Mounts on the overland map? All of this will need to be concepted, coded, designed, tested and bug checked. And these are just things I can come up with immediately off the top of my head.
     
  17. Bohica

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    For a kickstarter goal of 1 million dollars, we would have our beloved game. We have raised over 4x that, and still do not have enough money to have horses. But if we give them an ADDITIONAL 1/4 of a million dollars, that is 1/4 of the initial cost of the game, only then can we have horses. Doesn't add up to me.

    If you figure in horses, coding, armour, animations and all that other stuff that has been mentioned cost $250,000, then i would imagine that the 6 items for sale in the stretch-goal store would cost 10k+ dollars. So we are already in the hole for -6+ dollars in the horse department.

    As for elves, we already have Elf NPC's in game, why would it cost another $300,000 to make it a playable race?
     
  18. TEK

    TEK Legend of the Hearth

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    Personally, the stretch goals are working as intended since:

    1. I think the alternate races with affinity is a not so good idea as it goes against the classless system of being able to master any skill overtime without being gimped in anyway.

    2. I would rather see mounts be given a proper implementation that's fully spec'ed out and in an early UO tamer based fashion.

    Heck, I would like to see Anti-Pledges so that we can buy add-ons that make it harder to complete a proposed stretch goal. After all, we are letting our dollars do the talking with development right? :)
     
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  19. majoria70

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    rigged horse


    Regarding the horse stretch goal. I don't know what all it takes to add horses to the game. The cool thing is since being here is I have learned so much, like the word rigging in regards to characters, creatures, and monsters. It does seem more detailed than I originally thought. I thought this video was cool, it is a rigged horse someone made.
     
  20. smack

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    Yep, the stretch goal store is working as intended. If you really want the feature, help fund it and get some exclusive rewards for doing so.

    And regarding why it costs as much as it does...perhaps they're building in future maintenance and changes we'll ask for once we see it in-game. Because we've basically asked for changes to practically everything they've done so far. There hasn't been a single feature or piece of content that we haven't asked them to change or deviate from their original plans in some way, however minor. All of those unexpected changes add up, so perhaps the price has that built in to it.

    As far as how well it's doing, it's still early. There are a number of creative ways they can promote, entice and add more value to those rewards to get people to fund it. And yes, even if that means allowing Stretch Goal funding to apply towards your pledges. Will they do that? Likely not anytime soon....but they might. Never say never, as the saying goes with this crowd-funded game: the only constant is change.
     
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