The Glass is Half Empty - A look inside why people are opposed to Open PvP and Full Loot

You are artificially limiting the play of PvE here...as if there were some "Special Place" that only PvP people can go to get the UNIQUE item found there. There should be no such thing/construct/division of the universe.

 

You could theoretically still get any item or material in a PvP area - by purchasing it from a PvP-willing player. We are not to be an island unto ourselves; this is another example of that philosophy.

 

You misunderstand my post. I am not artifically limiting PvEers. They are choosing where they want to go and what level of risk they want to take. If they don't want to go in there, I gave other solutions. It doesn't mean they are shut out from ever getting their hands on that resources. And the whole thing is a game; it's all pretty much artificial at some level or another.

 

There could be spells that only work against other players needing ingredients only found in PVP land.
That gives some reasons for miners like me that like open pvp to mine there.

And then there are spells like fire field or walls that you can surround a player with.
If you allow that kind of content in PVE land you will have some very unhappy people.

 

WoW did it for one main, specific, reason: Blizzard wanted to slow down, and control, gearing speed. Due to that the game has raid lockouts, hard caps on the amount of highest tier gear tokens/currency a player can get, etc. The gear separation is there to prevent players from using PvP effort to increase PvE gearing speed and vice versa.

Currently I don't assume that the best PvE gear will require PvP. But some people keep saying that, since PvP is supposedly more "risky", it's rewards should be better not only in number but also in quality. You are defending this yourself when, in a following post, you defend that some resources usable in PvE should only be available in PvP content, thus completely preventing strict PvE players from ever acquiring them through combat.

If that ends up being the case I will just play offline; a game that attempts to force me into PvP in order to play PvE at peak performance is not worth my time.

Sincerely, if the only way to attract people to the PvP part of the game is to bribe them with things that are needed for PvE but can't be obtained through PvE itself, then it seems to be that PvP is a failure and the game would be better served by removing it altogether.

If the PvP is good and fun to play, it will attract players even without such bribes; if it's not, no amount of bribes will fix it, and such bribes will only serve to drag PvE down with it.

 

I agree with this statement.
It is better to attract players with more pvp content then it is with game items.
Bring in content for pvp and you will get the pvp players there.
Bring in items and you may get PVE players there but in the end PVE players would want less PVP to go there safely.

 

Given all the wailing and gnashing of teeth on both sides of the PvE/PvP divide, I will repeat my belief that it will be a mistake of the first order if the devs have PvE resources that can only be obtained in a PvP setting. Everthing a PvE player should need should be available in a PvE setting (SPO/FPO/OPO PvE). The ONLY reason anyone should alter their configuration for ANY form of PvP should be to partipate in PvP, to whatever extent they wish (duels, arena matches, guild wars, Open PvP).

It is a PvP SETTING. It is NOT a 'lets jerk players around to force them into a mode of play they don't want to play' setting.

The only thing you get when you start doing things like that is you annoy the Hell out of your players.

 

I am not suggesting that crafters are forever shut out from resources in PvP zones. They can get them other ways. If they are a PvEer, then they have made the decision that they do not want to (often) go into PvP areas. That's a play choice. They are shutting themselves out from personally gathering any resources in a PvP zone. If they NEED those resources for anything (which would be debatable, according to Richard's plan) then they can pay for someone else to gather, or hire a guard. It's that simple.

That's where the PvP rewards for PvP aquired resources comes in, but I'm not really down with that. And no, that doesn't mean that PvP gained resources should go to PvE gear. Gear should not have a PvP or PvE tag, but I understand why games make that decision. This thread is showing part of the reason why.

 

I understood your post apparently, but you didnt understand my reply, there should not be separate AREAS for PvP. I should be able to walk the whole world. PvP walking the same area will be in a different instance....or should be. We all have access to the entire world/universe we all get anything we want, playing the way we want. The problem is probably the way I phrase things.

 

Why would there, or SHOULD there be such spells?

It APPEARS you are trying to make an economy that will benefit ONLY the PvPer..making sure that EVERYONE can ONLY get something from a PvPer...either directly or indirectly, which I say is bad form. But just my opinion.

 

See you are FORCING PvE people to play your PvP game or give up on that segment of the economy while your PvP person has no such lockout for the things they need.

 

I am trying to give a reason for gathering in PVP mode.
If a PVE player can gather everything a PVP needs then why even gather in PVP mode?

 

The whole world should be PvP aside from maybe towns. This is selective multiplayer, if you don't want to get killed or have the chance for combat, play offline or friends only. Should certain materials only appear if you are playing full multiplayer? Maybe, but there should be a reason, which I can't define yet because we haven't touched the game. This whole argument seems so premature it isn't funny.

 

I have no problem with the entire place being PvP or not depending on your PvP switch, but Richard wants there to be some kind of draw into PvP for those who don't.

But not really. No one is stopping you from owning those resources. It's your CHOICE to not go into PvP, and therefore, to deal with the middlemen who will. PvPers are experiencing more risk by going in there, so dying more would be my first thought at their penalty.

There are many variations on how to play and there is no way they are going to be able to have every single ability countered exactly for everyone else. If there is an imbalance in the PvP only (or PvP mainly) resource, then Portalarium can tweak how much is available and perhaps even make another PvE only source, even if it is a reduced amount. There is A LOT of tweaking that will need to be done in Beta, and this is just one aspect. Going in circles about it every two days isn't doing anyone's stress level any favors.

 

Well, it seems to me that the subject of how many play modes to have and weather those modes should be PvE or PvP IS kinda a PvP subject, and PvE players are easily riled up by the contention that the only open play online mode should be PvP. FPO does NOT give enough contact to satisfy all PvE customers. That feels like a subject for the PvP forums. It's not like you have to be flagged to post here.

YES! agree massively. When I log in to a new game and see a spot on my character descripton for a "PvP stat" that increases, say, damage dealt and damage absorption (by only a tiny amount!), I immediately know that game's PvP is screwed. That makes it rule by those with the most time, because, be it by time spent or battles won, number of kills or objectives acheived, time will equal points, points will buy gear, gear with PvP stat will make you invincibetter, and thus ends the chances of any casual PvPer to enjoy the game.

OTOH, I really don't mind at all if someone get's a cool graphic that announces him as an emminent PvP badass.

 

I like that concept also. I asked during a Dev chat once with Lord British about this very subject actually, because I would have also liked everything to be random so you don't get people marking out runes for static resources and just recalling to them constantly. Also adds a bit to the exploration aspect.

In any case Lord British did say that the idea will be that there is a mix of both static and dynamic resources across the land. I would still like to suggest that resouce nodes be random and accessable by all players, no matter who they are.

 

Not only that, but it seems that the community is like a couple of young kids when it comes to what is perceived the other one is getting. If PvE players get something unique for their game, PvP are upset. If PvP get something unique for their game, PvE are upset. No matter if each entitlement is only usable within that type of game or not.

It is clear that Portalarium should not give us PvP players anything special, this will rage the PvE players and there are so many more of them than there are PvP. It could have a real impact if this happens, and I for one never want to hear "well PvP is OP because you get special things from the Devs." I've seen it before, creates a huge rift in the player base.

I think the special thing that PvP players should get is this: A great PvP game mechanic for toggling the slider to PvP!

Simple. Ensure everyone's game is the same across SPO and OPO no matter the type of player, make PvP fun and interesting with good game mechanics and that is by far reward enough for me as a PvP.

 

I think this would be ideal but is impossible, due to the same ecnonomy all game modes share.
I am perfectly fine with resources you only gather in PVP areas or PVE areas, as long as everyone can buy them in a common market. If you don't reward people taking a higher risk, noone will take it. And SotA will definetly not be some kind of Arena PVP game (symmetric combat instances etc.).. I think we already saw the focus lies on player ecnonomy and player interaction within a virtual world.

Maybe more like EvE online, but with greater and true Safezones for those who need and want them..

No matter what the Devs will present, some will dislike it and leave the game. I just hope the cutoffs are made at those people who are fundamental on their PVE or PVP side, and not willing to compromise between both.

 

The issue is, many many people will see gathering resources as part of their RP or gaming experiences. Taking that away from them due to PvP for example, is going to set them on fire.

They think about this stuff 24h a day, I'm sure, it must keep some of them up at night too. Where we aren't thinking about it quite that much, I'm sure they have something up their sleeves for us

 

It's a good thing I like both - I win either way!

(Again, and this is not just for Jack because I have a feeling he kinda sorta gets it with the slider (but not totally), for the 1,000th time, labeling someone with one play style is a totally artificial distinction.)