The Oracle Paradox

Nice quote.

 

It is a good one, I have always been partial to this one by Alan Watts.

“Waking up to who you are requires letting go of who you imagine yourself to be.” ~Alan Watts

 

Excellent quote. I am very familiar with Alan Watts.

 

Every human being should read his book, The Wisdom of Insecurity.

 

First off Im going to state something that is truth... I am not gneiss.

As far as the oracle is concerned we might have to review all 5 episodes again to understand the chracter to see what we missed the first time.

Most times it is difficult to figure out what a writer is trying to say if they are using analogies and parables. this can lead to numerous interpetations all seemingly able to be supported but only one intention drives the theme if there is only one writer, but that doesn't fix the interpetations.

Now if there are multiple writers or a change in management over the writing then the symbolism may be distorted or even venture off on a tangent that is no longer the initial intention for the story from beginning to end.

For example Star Trek the Next Generation...

Q is the first entity the enterprise meets, and it is also the last. watching the entire series over again it is amazing looking from the perspective that Q was in fact responsible for ALL of the episodes.

Every episode dealt with a different moral dilemma and ethical choices that had to be made by the crew. the most unusual encouters indeed. even paradoxical events occurred to test teamwork and trust of authority, the etnics of one live vs the prime directive, and also choosing the pime directive over others lives, all of wich occured. the question whether or not data was alive or just a machine to use to help humanity as a slave.

Now this may or may not have been the intended perspective but there is plenty of evidence that Q may have played a bigger role than many think. what do we really know about him? not much, and what we do know might have also been a test of character. was Guinean a Q as well? she met Pcard in the 1800s and she didn't age a bit. she is also a strange character and what we know about her may also just be the story she told them.

So everyone is fine with Q being the chaotic badguy, but what if Q was just exposing the best of humanity to indicate that we do not have to end in destruction , but that we are the Q.

Wath the series again and see if that theme seems to play out? if it fails to play out then I'm wrong. then again maybe Roddenberry did intend this, but the fact there were multiple writers and parent companies making edits that migt cloud it in a few episodes, but I think this theme does stand the test regardless. watch season one again and see for yourselves. i could be reading into this since nobody came out and made this claim... then again perhaps reading something and catching the pictures is the intention since people would totally reject hearing that we are fantastic when many people have a terminal mentality and those who would ultimately come to this conclusion might never get there because of the shock message because it takes time and one must come to the conclusion themselves. however this was just a TV show but if Rodenberry wanted there to be a moral to his story he would have made sure to make that happen.

Q or not the picture they painted over and over is very clear that they were saying we have it in us to have a bright and fantastic future with no limitations.

 

Star Trek the movie is an indicator of the thought process of Rodenberry. here comes this superior entity that had a massive cloud that measures like 80 AUs an enegy field a thousand star ships could not generate. it vaporized several klingon warbirds and is headed to earth.

Meanwhile Spock is seeking to purge all emotion and he senses this conciousness coming. a conciousness of pure logic. he could not accept the attainment of kolinahr because he was a purist and knew he had not attained to it.

Spock Joins Kirk and the Enterprise Crew to intercept and prevent the potential end of all life on earth. Spock performed a mind meld wih Vger and when he awoke in sick bay he was laughing. this godlike entity wih pure logic was barren and unable to evolve. it may have been godlike in knowledge and power but mentally it was lost. the only question it had after gathering all the knowledge in the universe was, "Is this all that I am, is there nothing more?".

It was seeking the creator. it could not accept humans, and even views us as an infestation of the enterprise. it was about to wipe out all life on earth because it though humans oppressed the creator. however once Kirk discovered V g e r was actually Voyager VI, they proved they were the creator by sending voyager 6's transmission code.

Vger then severs the connection to keep it from reciving the transmission so that the creator would come and finish inputing the code in person. Bones said "you mean to touch God?" Ilea says Vger must join with the creator.

Deker says I will finish the sequence. he joins wih vger-ilea.

They all watched from the enterprise and Bones says did we just watch a new life form being born? one with both veger and human qualities able to evolve beyond this universe. spock said something to the effect that yes unfortunately it will have to deal with the faulty human emotions as well.

Seems like Roddenberry didn't hide his beliefs behind too much symbolism. he is telling the same story over and again.

unlike other furnituristic shows though, Star Trek has a noble view of the future of humanity. he isn't portraying an apocalypse in the future, like the terminator.


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I like Ultima for similar reasons. unlike all the D&D offshoots Ultima doesn't have supiror races and deities. there are no devine healers separate from any other type of magic user. we choose our own destiny not the destiny of the gods. the devil doesn't make us do it, we are empowered with the responsibility for our own choices.

 

I agree; Q was an amazing character, and I think the Continuum was trying to help humanity to evolve to that next stage of being. Q was never a bad guy; but he was the perfect foil for Picard who was humanity's idealized symbol which was flawed in its own sense of pride for having transcended the barbarism and greed we experience in our own reality now. That was the whole point of Encounter at Farpoint. Q was wonderfully provocative for as much Picard was ethical (or tried to be), he was susceptible to that pride and arrogance that plagued humanity as evidenced in the following exchange:

Q: But you can't deny Captain, that you're still a dangerous, savage child-race.

Picard: Most certainly I deny it. I agree that we still were when ... humans wore costumes like that four hundred years ago...

Q: At which time you slaughtered millions in silly arguments about how to divide the resources of your little world. And four hundred years before that you were murdering each other in quarrels over tribal god-images. And since there have been no indications that humans will ever change...

Picard: But even as far back as... that costume, we had begun to make rapid progress.

Q: Oh? Shall we review your "rapid progress"? Rapid progress to where humans learned to control their military with drugs. Then later, on finally reaching deep space, humans of course found enemies to fight out there too. And to broaden those struggles... you again found allies to permit still more murdering and all over again the same old story.


In Ultima IX, it took the Avatar merging with the Guardian in order to ascend to the next stage of being, god or demigod or something of that nature. The Avatar had to overcome Pride in order to join with the Guardian. Indeed, that joining utilized all the virtues at one time. I am intrigued to see if something similar happens in New Britannia as well. Perhaps this is how humans became batteries in The Matrix?

I think a solution I may have left out for that Soltown quest would be that of the Path of Courage where the player would actually make the effort to find the deserter and escort him to the refugee camp (after fighting off scripted mobs and facing challenges). That the solution of deeds over words maybe has more merit. It's also a solution that requires the player to take the initiative rather than paths of least resistance.After the deserter confesses to his lover that he deserted the post, the player can then return to the Oracle who would acknowledge that the Avatar took the more difficult path which turns out to be a better consequence to satisfy the player's emotional connection to the quest. It doesn't necessarily mean that picking the Courage solution is the better solution; it's just that it is a solution that has a consequence that as with the others may give the player pause to consider something about the situation.

 

Some fascinating ideas! And I think all consistent within @Time Lord 's reminders that the Oracle must remain fluid. I wouldn't expect that the arc of her narrative be written already. Or that it is even necessary to "know" what she is at this point- or indeed ever- to "get" whatever it is we are trying to get from having this kind of discussion.

However it is fun to speculate... and the more that we have been speculating the more our perspectives are developing and evolving- even as the Oracle herself may be developing and evolving. Also, they should probably just hire @Kambrius

I think the question of whether or not she is AI, or even a failed attempt at AI, is fairly central. Just from a writers' standpoint I think it would be kind of silly not for her to be AI since it is such a timely subject.

So there are the questions about the Oracle herself. And then there are questions about what kind of relationship we may have with her, both as a role player and as a player-in-general.

Also.. @Alexander can you recall... weren't we talking about an episode of Star Trek about a "shroud"? I just tried quickly searching for it again and didn't find anything.

 

Hehe, Jaan, I'm just enjoying the speculation that we keep bouncing off each other here. I bet you didn't expect this thread to go 16 pages. From my end, I feel that there's more I want from the Oracle than what I am getting. Right now it feels like a chore to even bother to see it, free gold or not.

 

I think you nailed the answer right there.
His job would be to sit 24/7 on VOIP chat in game and ***** to everyone who enters an oracle booth about how disapointing and inadequate they were.

They would pay him In COTOs, so he would never really need anything else ever again. He could sell his cotos online for food and rent money and never leave his flat for years at a time.

DREAM LIFE!

 

Yeah, but what about health benefits? Might be a deal breaker if there's no SotACare.

 

I found it.. "Skin of Evil" was the episode when Tasha Yar died.

The creature in it was called the "Shroud" and was basically some kind of sentient "residue" left over from an ancient race.

Maybe there is a similar idea here... the "life force" of the Avatar that was left over after Armageddom was cast... kind of like in the Bob White plot for U9.

According to that version, Skara Brae shoots off into space... maybe it could actually be the Hidden Vale. It carried the Shroud of the Avatar along with LB and the other survivors to Novia... maybe the Britannians were the ancestors of the Obsidians..?

 

I am thinking you will need to get private health cover from a medical practitioner that accepts COTOs. Ask around on the forums maybe?

 

So the Oracle could basically be like a Miss Cleo... you actually "call in" to get your free reading... only better because she actually pays you!

 

They should make COTOs into an actual cryptocurrency. Idle client resources are tapped to "mine" for COTOs, but only when logged in.

 

So now we are thinking tarot readings, horiscopes, dating advice, partyline, naughty chat per minute, all the modern conveninces.

I think that would sell.

 

Sorry I'm a bit late to this party

@Jaanelle DeJure Pssssst, over here ========> Shroud

It does help that I'm a diehard trekkie

Edit: I see you found it.

 

Great point. her answers being fluid shows she does adapt and may be something more than just a machine. is she a living machine like data, or Vger? or is the machine just a front end for something that is communicating back from another plane of existence whatever that may be? perhaps even something that wasn't expected by the builders .

 

Just ordered it. Thank you for the heads up. I've listened to several of Alan Watts audio recordings of his talks from the late 60's/early 70's many years ago.
Looking forward to reading this.

 

It's Mr. Universe.