The Oracle Paradox

But lets not lose perspective with too much philosophy here, in practical terms, we are troubled because the Oracle makes no sense, yes its mysterious, but there is no common ground to roleplay from, and even worse no background to set my role upon in my own imagination, all I see is that for the Oracle and basically everyone else, I might as well not be and it wouldn't change anything.

But to remain constructive on the topic here I want to say that mystery is not opposed to hierarchy of values.

Anyone with a sensible mind is going to be virtuous, not because its his intention but because there are so many unknowns that its safer to play low profile and let things flow "as they should".

This is the direct opposite to "be yourselves"... I am loud, I have had astral voyages, mystical visions, scientific illuminations, alchemical transfiguration.

In our race to please everyone we forgot that often the underdog is a good point of reference, I blame american politics right now for that.

If its to remain so shallow and simple "because we must please even the casual player who doesn't care about spiritual stuff"... then do please offer an alternative option that is currently best embodied in "the fellowship" which has the flipside of mystery that the oracle concept so lacks.

I mean the oracle is so obvious, so unbelievable, that THIS is what is troubling. We're not troubled because its shady, we're troubled because it does not feel like a story element, rather a shortcut to making sure they don't have too much moderation efforts to do on the community (we self moderate, because what if the oracle is important). We've seen such shortcuts time and again in other games, and they've troubled us equally.

I'll go back to the good cherished days of ultima alpha-beta... the game was incomplete, the story wasn't even put forward... there was ONLY problems to resolve, bugs to out... anyone coming forward with such deep questioning was turned away of course.

But the roleplay my friends... the roleplay was magical. We filled the unknowns with "ourself" and it was pure joy. I had joined 4 guilds and planned so many events even before I received my beta CD... I think my mind worked so much more before "release" than after. And that is with a very sparse community with no real unity and no real common ground, it was all new !

Now imagine what the same liberality was applied to our very tightly knit community, where everyone takes time to learn about ultima lore to "fill in the gaps"... yes thats right, I see an architectural wonder of the soul with gold raining and naked angels dancing in the rainbow.

Call me an idealist, you can, but that is untapped potential right there, and it requires NO system.

What that does is two fold, it allows for people to decide their backstory, and at the same time take position on the political matter of the oracle and other elements in the game.

Right now all we have is "well I think we have to wait until the product is more ready, you have to wait because we don't know yet"

That is mystery yes, but one that ignores the infinite diversity of players we were bound to attract.

Roots is what we need

 

There isn't? I don't follow.

I must not have a sensible mind, then!

To me... it is non-sensical for somebody to come to this game in pre-release and attempt to play it like they want to "win" the game. That's just totally silly to me. And yet, that's what many are doing, and then complaining when they have not been given the "exact set of rules" that will allow them to "win" the game.

But nobody is stopping you from "sandbox roleplaying" whatever you want.

Such a thing exists, except it isn't being offered by Portalarium. It's being offered by the players. Care to join?

Whatever you see about the Oracle is "obvious" to you, but not to the players who are worried about whether or not she will give them a "cookie" for being good little boys and girls. And still other players (probably the majority) are still in a somewhat agnostic state... not sure what to make of her. @Lum the Mad just told us she is about to get some major attention, so let's wait and see what they have in store...

YES! But actually... there are all sorts of things like that going on right now. I can't even keep up with them all! Maybe you just haven't been connected with the right people for your playstyle yet...

There are many people who are going ahead and creating their own "systems" within the game that are alternative/complementary to what is being implemented by Port. A lot of it might become obsolete once this or that "piece" gets put in. But it's all just for fun, anyway.

Indeed

 

You nailed it right there.

 

Fabrication, illusion....

Perhaps the cathulus are there to comfort the masses within their comfort zones. However those whose journey has brought them to a place where they have one foot inside that old zone and one foot in the new zone are those who are at the greatest discomfort and instability.

If anything can move from illusion to reality and maybe the goal is to move beyond the cathulu.

How do we embrace the principles of the virtues if we are still trying to embody them? Perhaps the substance can be found in the absence of the principles. To embody the substance of virtue perhaps one must embrace the opposite as well. To embrace the principals of virtue one know yhat all people are equal so that their humility is an established fact not something one must attain to by deeds so that it can be a beautiful and noble expression that is lifegiving to everyone by acceptance and grace.

Where as the cathulus seem to create special groups and divisions while using the same virtues the avatar is to embrace. Using virtue in this way leads to those who seek control and also exclusion. Exclusion is eliminated when the people are one. Humility is essential for the avatar to truly embrace all of the virues otherwise it becomes precept upon precept and there is only judgment and wrath instead of peace.

 

Exactly; and not to be disrespectful to the Oracle concept or its creators/custodians, but @Ahuaeynjgkxs mentions here about the difference in style,depth, and significance of the Fellowship vs. Oracle (if such a comparison is apt) is what really bothers me, the player (the character, however, doesn't have an opinion because the premise of the what and whys surrounding the Oracle and its involvement in my character's story doesn't make sense). To me, the feeling I get surrounding this part of the story is akin to the disdain I feel towards J.J. Abrams and his treatment of beloved franchises (wow I wrote that without using any expletives directed at that motherf... Whoops ).

And I really, really want to participate in the story that Port is crafting. We talk about Ultima VII a lot around here. What made it so amazing in my mind is that upon entering the game, the Avatar is presented with a mystery that requires solving (to a degree) and introduces you to a seemingly innocuous main antagonist (Batlin and co.) before leaving Trinsic. Indeed, when it comes to the Fellowship and the way it is presented in the accompanying black book and through the conversations, the competing philosophy didn't come across as creepy at all, and that was its charm. With this Oracle, I feel I have to consider it as being a creepy thing. Also, whereas the Fellowship had it's backstory presented in Batlin's black book in a meaningful way, the brief mention of the Oracle and its purpose towards the end of Sword of Midras feels shoehorned.

 

I am for one just greatly excited to see people caring about details in the storylines. It gives hope to RP in the future and not some virtual chat online social experiment.

 

Agree. And one of the reasons why I put so much energy into this game is that I seriously want Port to succeed in making the best RPG game with a deeply immersive story to it possible.

 

May I add that in this day and age *cough* people are more interested by individuals than "theme parks" what is really going to end up attracting people to a niche game is, niched people. There has to be a word for that

It seems logical that if the oracle is to be somewhat believable, it needs to make sure the social constructs follow suit (which I why I keep repeating this is a roots issue and not some vague distant future venture) so the AI needs to be fed information that is MORE important than what it perceives.

Now, this does not need to be SERIOUS to be fun, small details such as giving a heal when available can be a matter of good karma, if the social environment is conductive. Which is where @Kambrius way of relating is better than my adolescent fervor at the subject

People will come to this game to consult with the great legendary BDF and his impeccable logic and perseverance in focus, people will come to consult with the infamous Time Lord and his eccentric views will color their day, they will feel comfortable to bring their children around to enjoy the game because there will be implicit trust since the Time Lord will really be himself, not a shadow of a maybe if you get my gist.

Conscious, unique, niched people...

That is SO important for a "social game" to draw these very elementary equations.

It is so important because hey the conclusion of our discourse is again "money + oracle - money + people + money -money +art..." ad nauseam. Money rules the world...

But where is the real money in the future for a game like this ? And we know we all BELEIVE in the dev team, like strongly, we know they could be ready to handle a massive flow of new players and the infrastructure is going to hold.

Where is the real money ?

EDUCATION ! Education through fun !!!

So tell me, what image we want to project to kids who are going to play our game ?

Tell me I'm wrong

The vision is so great... we've attracted all matters of strange and unusual which populated our imaginations since our youth, now its time to honor them.

It's time to pay, its time to time.

 

If karma is a motivation to do good then what good does bad karma give anyone? So if we have to be good and not be evil then we are denying part of our humanity. Does karma encourage embracing ourself or is it a tool of denying oneself?

Are we to embrace ourselves or deny ourselves, and if we deny ourself how can we be expected to accept others? I find that as I try to do good evil is right there with me.

 

I believe in the community as well, the hospitality I received while walking around pvp enabled was short of miraculous.

I've signified my gratitude on many occasions, I even believe that the money I pledged was worth only being privy to the development process so I hold no weight against portalarium, I think they are being stable and virtuous.

Well according to the very game we are spiritual successor to, ascension is the goal, is how you win the game because through your journey you learn, its an educational vision that King Gariott has, and its one I admire and I've not been shy to speak about this obsession of mine with "illumination". I just want people to be the best of themselves, because thats what I see when peering through the looking glass.

The exact set of rules is a must for merely entering the game, it can be the strongest factor in retaining new players, beyond story beyond graphics. People feel like they can trust open sourced logics, and will accept superimposed paranormal activity naturally if the base contract is respected until they feel "fluid" with their interface. It's a question of timing...

If we can make people happy because they powergamed to "win" the top scores, why not, they are not mutually exclusive... you can still have a background that encourages using the game for learning.

We can't really be lazy about feeding the roots then complain our supposedly dedicated niched entertainers and pvpers leave or "take breaks" which make the story flow uneven and world evolution uncertain. This is an old wound that has never healed it seems, we need to pay attention.

What makes those players happy ? Being themselves, how simple is that, the solution only requires a open heart.

Ultimas forged the most varied and most deep players, for good and worse, but nonetheless in an admirable magnitude.

That is what I mean by background, this is not the phoenix that rises from its ashes and we "all start fresh" while that works for the casual player its not going to create coherence in the application of justice and proper social architecture in the niched player that has all this ultima in them.

This is the circle of stones where all ought to be equal for the sake of a magnetic structure which will attract people in the natural way, for wanting others to learn while having fun, our common ground.

 

There is a distinction in the fact that theoretically your karma is also part of your ancestry with whom you share affinities, for example an benign propensity to lie to protect a passion which has been made fun of by others in the past can be related to a moment in time where such a small lie led to a lampoonery which completely nullified your ancestor's virtue and accomplishments. Creating an imbalance in the force...

Then making the effort to face your fears and affirm your passion would resolve that particular karma, encouraging you to embrace yourself.

Karma literally is a moment stuck in time that hasn't been resolved, something that went untold, a tragedy which noone remembers. It's a wheel of those moments, and it has a strong torque... cords of attachement between people of thus karmicked ancestry will drag on the wheel and sometimes force the energy back where it belongs, its a matter of quantum physics so lets not ride into this to remain on topic.

With remembrance there is understanding of the reasons and how it reflects in your behaviors, this allows cords of attachment to flow back the proper amount of energy then to be cut off, allowing infiltration of light, energy, chi, photons back into the body : physical ascension.

 

Perhaps the oracle is operating under karma? However my karma is like the Dahli Llama's who says his karma allows him define his own reincarnation by his own choosing, china isn't the one in control of his life

 

Per pale argent a coiled snake rampant,
a spider furred hard-worked patient,
immaculate mantis preying perseverant,
golden bee reconciles copper rose repentant,
towering dragons at gaze erased penitent,
white raven head uncrowned respectant.

 

I doubt the Oracle answers to Karma hehe

 

Why not? The oracle is giving advice. Just because she is not performing actions maybe her words could be subject to karma??? if infact she were preaching and teaching karma, why not hold her to the same judgment we perceive she gives. (Perhaps that is why some people don't like her because they condemn her words). I don't know, I'm only talking about it to ponder it and dialog about it. Maybe we see through a filter. If we do then we cannot see the filter but only see through it... or maybe that is the words of a madman.


Nevertheless if there is Truth with a capital T, then Truth must be the same for all. Our belief cannot create truth.

 

Maybe it thinks it does After playing through the Ultimas its very unlikely that a machine has the capacity to grasp such an organic concept. Hence my doubt, but its just a doubt that my avatar has because of how shallow her perceptions seem to him that could change !

 

Truths plural its like a collecting game...

instead of pixels you get truthS

 

Humility as defined by the Ultima Codex

Humility is the opposite of Pride, and independent of the principles of Virtue, is about perceiving one's place in the world, not according to one's own accomplishments, but according to the intrinsic value of all individuals. It is the recognition of the worthiness of all beings, and the perception of one's own place among them, regardless of one's own personal accomplishments or mistakes in the world. New Maginciais a towne built on the ruins of old Magincia by a colony of humble people who understand well the dangers of false, self-serving pride and the beauty of humility.

The Shrine of Humility is situated on the Isle of the Avatar.

.....


On the road to virtue, humility is an elusive wind in the face. To lack Truth, Love, and Courage is to spread the seeds of pride. Humility is that gentle breeze which, upon seeing the seeds of pride, sweeps away these begetters of hubris and discontent. Humility is often the last virtue captured, for pride is quick to flourish. To find humility, you must bear witness to the pride in your spirit. Only after such an examination, can you call forth the winds of humility.
- from Journal, (Ultima IX)


I agree with you. Since pixils make up one big picture. Perhaps this though is like saying sometimes the pixel is able to represent the whole picture. Not that the ultima codex teaches truth but that Truth beling Truth is represented by every pixel of truths since truth is true for all equally.

 

Love this thought paradigm ! Thats what we need to keep doing, always giving references to books we've read, reaching into the dark !