The Oracle Paradox

See thats the good news we don't have to take a path at all, the path became us, the narrow path was one man. If it were a personal choice then surely some further performance is required to prove ones self, but rather the whole thing ended. The only evidence is within us, simply knowing that our future is totally unwritren, and there is absolutely no judgment to come and there is no need for superstitions or fears that the universe will recompense us good or bad based upon wjat we do. All people are on level ground, no male nor female, so even if there were mother theresas, gandis, hitlers, all are equally worthy and there is no favoritism. Sure there are good deeds and bad deeds. I surely say that a hitler deserves wjatever he gets coming to him but there is no karma nor any punishment from a spiritual authority because that was abolished. It isn't a personal decision. People who do good and people who do bad will get no special treatment from the universe believe it or don't believe it.

Oh and sorry for the mother theresas and ghandis if they think a reward is coming their way from the universe too. Nothing they do will get them praise from the universe for their good behavior either. It just isn't fair!!!

 

Hm... I would love if it was that simple... faith is not belief... and xorinia exists...

 

I think you also need to separate achievements and expectations... there is no dark side, you wish there was one and you explained yourself why people do that in the beginning.

Talk about a self-fulfilling prophecy

 

I think... I'll go with don't beleive it... lol

 

ok I need to stop laughing now and go to bed, this is just so absurd... thanks for the laugh and the bit of ... well I'm at a loss for words.

you funny man... hahahah

 

I found some room for you @StevieD ... enjoy All those groups were really packed tight with people ...
~TL~

 

I'd like to refocus this thread a bit, if possible.

Terms like "karma" and "ascension" are extremely challenging to talk around, especially considering the current alt/pop definitions of the terms which are at wide variance from their original meanings. Karma is not really about reward/punishment for good/bad deeds, but about being "stuck in a moment" that repeats over and over again. In any case, it does not play much of a role in Ultima lore. And the term "ascension" (in Ultima lore) really only refers to the actual act of the re-integrated Avatar/Guardian leaving Britannia. In that respect, ascension has little- if anything- to do with the concept popularized by a certain modern-day False Prophet, who shall remain nameless and NOT become the topic of discussion for this thread.

As for the "reality" of good and evil:

As for the past repeating itself... well there are certain things that are different this time around.

For example, previously Lord British summoned the Stranger to Britannia, who then became the Avatar. Outlanders, on the other hand, are brought to Novia by the Oracle. Something to ponder.

This is the only time the Oracle is mentioned in the book, by the way.

Here's what else we "know":

1. The Avatar "ascended" to a higher plane already, as evidenced by the Ankh constellation.

2. Outlanders (mostly) come from Earth.

3. Despite the Avatar's ascension, Britannia was nevertheless destroyed in a great Cataclysm caused by the collision of the two moons.

4. The Oracle is a machine created by the Titans intended to recover the wisdom and knowledge that was lost in the Cataclysm.

5. The Guardian is/was also a Titan. (We might reasonably assume they all know of each other.)

6. Lord British still exists. (And presumably remembers what happened.)

7. Lord British wants Outlanders to drink the Oracle's "Kool-Aid" despite knowing what happened when the last Avatar attempted to teach Virtue to the masses.

 

Are you talking about Osho ?

Ascension is also part of ancient tradition, its literally the process of releasing karma and allowing light back into the body, the body vibrates faster hence, ascension. Buddha ascended to the next dimension but apparently he wanted to bring his disciples and it didn't work, all the energy went to him and he ended up alone (his other plane karma) on the other side. Many other grand masters have ascended... anyways we're philosophizing and not looking for scientific proof here, its a game that is modeled on those faiths.

Indeed some false prophets would love to turn this into a kind of mental thing, where you meditate and position your merkaba and then bam magic, you know how to ascend without hurting yourself and others, NOT ! They do this to use the energy of others for supporting their own flawed ascension... truth is ascension is between you, xorinia and the oldest symbiotic being in the universe (the first to ascend).

Let me reassure you however, this is a very important part of this game ; people believe you can raise your skills and amass a fortune and yay, they've won ! They look for end game because they do not understand the infinite nature of King British's vision.

@Lum the Mad can you please confirm that spiritual authority has been abolished and that we can live our normal life and not worry about anything basically ?

How boring that sounds... no adventure, no path to walk, no karma to release so our children can live a better life... dull dull dull unlife.

That is the nature of the great lie which the oracle is seemingly trying to abolish, the guardian wasn't evil, he guards things, in the case of our protagonist, he was guarding his independence and ability to live a life without rules and karma (the mirror of the fact that the avatar was living individuated-ego release). This is not evil... someone that is slower on the path of ascension and limps his way isn't evil... he's just lost.

Good can exist without evil, since its just a perversion due to pure lazyness of those who think they can will their way through ascension. When the good become evil through a series of amnesias and lazyness, then evil and suffering and pain cause the good to grow and understand.

But thats an oversimplifications, because some truely useless evil people walk among us, and they will not even honor the laws that nature put forth.

So yes, some people DO NOT CARE about spiritual law and will completely ignore it and not receive gods hammer on the head, however let us remember we are made out of nature, so thinking you can side step its authorithy that we've turned into spiritual concepts about the human psyche is basically the most foolish thing you can do (speaking from experience).

Karma isn't in a hurry, it can wait to balance the scales, so the oracle would be, logically.

 

For anyone interested in RP with the Oracle. We have a grand Oracle temple in Serenite made by our master mason Jonah Hayes.

It is a work of art .

 

Here's a great poem from Khalil Gibran which helped me (along with plato and rousseau) clarify those concepts :

Of the good in you I can speak, but not of the evil.
For what is evil but good tortured by its own hunger and thirst?
Verily when good is hungry it seeks food even in dark caves, and when it thirsts it drinks even of dead waters.

You are good when you are one with yourself.
Yet when you are not one with yourself you are not evil.
For a divided house is not a den of thieves; it is only a divided house.
And a ship without rudder may wander aimlessly among perilous isles yet sink not to the bottom.

You are good when you strive to give of yourself.
Yet you are not evil when you seek gain for yourself.
For when you strive for gain you are but a root that clings to the earth and sucks at her breast.
Surely the fruit cannot say to the root, “Be like me, ripe and full and ever giving of your abundance.”
For the fruit giving is a need, as receiving is a need to the root.

You are good when you are fully awake in your speech,
Yet you are not evil when you sleep while your tongue staggers without purpose.
And even stumbling speech may strengthen a weak tongue.

You are good when you walk to your goal firmly and with bold steps.
Yet you are not evil when you go thither limping.
Even those who limp go not backward.
But you who are strong and swift, see that you do not limp before the lame, deeming it kindness.

You are good in countless ways, and you are not evil when you are not good,
You are only loitering and sluggard.
Pity that the stags cannot teach swiftness to the turtles.

In your longing for your giant self lies your goodness: and that longing is in all of you.
But in some of you that longing is a torrent rushing with might to the sea, carrying the secrets of the hillsides and the songs of the forest.
And in others it is a flat stream that loses itself in angles and bends and lingers before it reaches the shore.
But let not him who longs much say to him who longs little, “Wherefore are you slow and halting?”
For the truly good ask not the naked, “Where is your garment?” nor the houseless, “What has befallen your house?”

 

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yeah not in english.

 

Oh and I forgot to mention... I was in Tenebris Harbor the other day attempting to get some "legitimate" carrots and was STILL chastised for stealing... by a cat no less!

Talking cats? Stealing from the dead? Are ethical talking cats a thing now, or was a dev trying to mess with me?

 

We've actually succeeded to do this on a few shards, and the concept was being deployed to encompass all, yet that is when the ebay scandal (was told to refer to it this way) forced EA to fire all seers and counselors.

Years of work down the drain, but it was indeed a learning endeavor. Now Portalarium is saavy and hopefully very saavy about the reasons for this failure.

When we talk about a 100% digital universe and we come down to it, bad programming, bad AI is always what leads good artists to their doom. All of this was preventable, but I was very young and not enough people took me seriously because I didn't even understand half of what was going on. Still I had this gut feeling all around and I was right to take all of this a little too seriously.

It changed me for the best, and karma blessings are raining upon my shining silver head of wisdom.

 

I hear and feel all double meanings, and triplicate intentions.

I do not act on them immediately because I know I can create karma for myself by not having rolled my tongue seven times in my mouth before I spoke. Yet I can write without any filter about the way I feel, although it can hurt others and myself.

Now let me reiterate, I know this may sound cultish *cough* and sinister *cough* but you will see why soon enough. It's not as if I was asking it for my own pleasure, you will all agree this is not "pleasurable". I bear this message on behalf of the titans and they sure won't be the ones giving you a wake up convenience call

Better activate your prayer capsule and head to the oracle confirmatory

Give thy gold away if it suits you, but more importantly than all true virtue is not giving gold but to teach others how they can make it grow on trees

 

Indeed. Now do you suppose the Oracle's spies made a note of this? Or were they only concerned with snitching to her about those carrots?

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Up until now we have no indication that the oracle would be protecting other species do we ? So it must be that you were stealing from the dead... seems to me she is more concerned with your actions than the result.

I think she should absolve you unconditionally