The PvE/PvP Conundrum

So, this thread https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/f...h-are-you-unofficial.4120/page-21#post-195792

actually the poll in it shows us that casuals are not the core and the majority of SotAs future playerbase.
So why do the devs cater to them? Why won't we get full looting everywhere for example?
Too many why's and no one to answer.
Let's have a civilized discussion here.

 

This would be a better wording of the polling data.

 

Accusing a group of players of a conspiracy is not the best way to start a civilized discussion.

That being said, forum users are a small subset of backers. Polls posted in the PvP sub-forums have been very slanted in comparison to polls in the General forums. I don't think altering game design because of that poll is necessarily the wisest decision. I think it makes more sense to look at what they learned with UO and industry trends on the whole. Furthermore, there is the simple logic that full loot removes people from play and then kills/stops PvP right there. Not to mention it dissuades some players from ever trying it in the first place. Having a PvP system where you can't find anyone to engage in PvP with is not fun or beneficial for anyone.

 

Full loot makes crafters more valuable, adds to immersion, entices players to pvp.

Considering that SotA will have consensual pvp only, I see no reason why we can't allow the pvp community this or something very similar.

 

Crafters are still valuable for repairs even when you don't lose your items. Losing your items mean PvP stops. How is that good for PvP when you have to travel to another town, buy replacement gear, head back and then the people are gone and you can't re-engage in PvP?

 

It makes every encounter far more meaningful. Quality over quantity.

 

If you really love PvP and you're playing a game for PvP and you can never find someone to engage in PvP, then how is that fun?

 

I highly doubt that is an issue unless you've driven most pvp players off because of overzealous pve players and poor pvp mechanics.

 

Full loot makes crafters pointless cause everyone will run around using pretty basic gear that they can afford to lose, like tribal spears in UO.

 

How is that worse than people never losing their items and the demand for crafters lessened because of it?

 

Templar,

So you at least assent to with the fact that, if we went by the poll, a majority want PvP to be consensual?

My guess is that the devs, even if they were assured that the majority did want full loot, wouldn't want to simply create a game for the majority of players, but a game for all players. This is why they seem to be interested in creating a variety of different rulesets, both for PvP in general, and also looting in particular. The degree to which this approach will create a better game will have to be seen.

 

You're mixing so many thing I don't know where to start.

1) How does PvE = casual? People will raid in WoW 20 hours a week and that's just the scheduled, guild raids.
2) For all the talk of "PvE," I really haven't heard anything at all about the PvE in this game. Are there raids? Are their epic quests? Are there 5 man instances? While I myself and not a huge fan of these things, if I were, I'd wonder what SotA were doing about them. PvE is probably the only aspect of the game we've heard less about than PvP.
3) I don't know what "full loot" has to do with any of this at all.
4) What does a poll of the existing player base have to do with the future player base? Put a poll out on an MMO website and get non SotA people voting instead. That's who we want to know about.

 

Several crafters have cited that very concern though, that if people only want replacement level starter gear, that isn't good for them. Crafters want a market of high end gear.

 

Have to say that crafters are more valuable when it is open loot, besides repairs looking back there isn't much use for armor/weapon crafters when you have no risk of losing it. How much your vender really going to sell in weapons/armor? I can't lose my stuff so I have no need to purchase extra.

I think open loot is a fundamental for pvp, the risk to engage and have something to lose. Archeage no open loot, I die oh well I run back and engage, maybe die again or kill a few then get ganked. There is no risk in dying so I can just go right back again, gets rather boring. No thrill except hunting down a few pks that kill our own faction.

I understand for some reason whatever that may be people will not pvp, no matter the situation and refuse to take any part in it. That's their choice it's something that has to be respected. However, maybe a faction system similar to UO with 4 player factions, enrollment in the faction as an individual or guild will flag for open loot/pvp anywhere. There is always somewhere to compromise if they are keeping the servers united.

 

I'm sure there will be one. Why not? If you're willing to risk that high end sword it could pay off nicely. Otherwise you can sell to pve players who wouldn't have the same risk attached to high level equipment.

 

I generally agree. Do things which make sense. Don't swallow a spider to catch a fly.

The argument seems to be, "we screwed up and didn't make crafting fun...so we added weird repair needs but this broke something else...so now we need to make PvP weird..."

 

I dispute the supposition that PvP makes crafters more valuable. This May be true if the PvP victors stored their loot in vast underground warehouses, never doing anything with it, rather than setting up a vendor and selling it.

If the latter, then Crafters are no more valuable than before, as the equipment is still in circulation, and still in use, and still in need of the same amount of repair.

What is actually happening is that the PvP enthusiasts are using PvP to collect their wares to make money rather than making it themselves. They farm it off of their opponents.

 

If you attach a significant durability penalty to armour on death then it becomes useful to smelt and takes it out of circulation.

What's the other option? Everyone keeps their best armour, nothing changes, and pvp is arcade style and boring / meaningless.

 

The same durability loss could and should be applied to all equipment regardless of the source of the damage, whether through PvP or PvE combat... Again, no difference, crafters are equally valuable whether the world is all PvP, PvE, or (my preference) a mix of PvE and consensual PvP.

 

Then what is your objection to full loot if you feel there is no difference?