The PvP Enigma

well the good thing about PvP in this game is it is totally optional. You don't have to PvP. So just like every other PvP thread where people talk about "it will create the Fel/Tram path..." it won't.

The reason is that Feluca was a place not a style of play. The problem with Trammel and Felucca is that you had to go to Felucca to get the open world type experience. In SotA by selecting PvP we will still be in the same world with PvP turned on. It isn't a different place.

 

The biggest complaint I repeatedly have seen here about Fel/Tram is the ability to leave the PvP field. Why take the risk to be open to PvP 100% of the time when you can gear up in non PvP to be 100% ready for PvP.

Risk vs Reward is the term used I do believe. Same reward with our without the PvP risk.

So yes, Fel/Tram is a factor here IF there is full loot.

 

Actually, we don't know that dropping to FPO mode disables PvP, just as we don't know how PvP is enabled/disabled in any mode -- except this magical PvP "flag" that they talk about. The only thing we can confidently say is that FPO mode only allows people on your friends list into your game and that SPO doesn't allow anyone.

 

I don't think there should be a higher durability hit when in PvP no… I think the world should be persistent. Whether PvPing or not.

I give up arguing with you Ristra. Too painful, sorry. There's no need to get this finite with details..
There should be a gear sink yes. Full loot seems to be the best one for me.

 

There isn't? The detail is what makes RG the master at what he does.

 

yea that's what im talking about if i heal you, i will already be flagged for PVP so it could switch me to the color etc..of your guild. I just don't like being in a guild, but if i feel that guild is fighting for the right reason id like to jump in and help out. And i think that if your going to participate in a guild war, everyone on that guild should be attackable, what if you have one guy not pvp and the other pvp, with the settings thus far from what weve heard if your pvp you wont even see the non pvp person, so how is that gonna work?

 

I would like to include all forms of pvp no matter how vile they are, without having a PVE tell us, the PVP how it should be done! The PVP is not telling the PVE how crap should be! If they dont PVP, PK, PKK or whatever just try not to post anything against it when we ARE talking PVP, of course that wont stop them from posting but dont be surprised when all is said and done, you get your butt ganked in pvp! There are other ways to persuade someone to take up PVP, one is to piss off people in the threads posting here in the forums(no matter what side your on) , or someone whining all the time, fighting all the time against everything typed just for the sake of argument about something in the forums, by doing that they have just put a target on thier back when entering pvp! This is not pointed at you! So dont take it that way!

 

Then let's leave those micro-details to the master. You are not he.

 

Flagged for PvP for the purposes of the guild war, but not for Open PvP. There is a difference, or at least I hope so. If all someone wants is to take part in a guild war, they can flag for that, but not be exposed to attack from anyone other than someone in the rival guild. That is a significant step down from Open PvP.

I think by definition, if your guild accepts a guild war, EVERYONE in that guild is flagged for PvP with EVERYONE in the rival guild. If you disagree with the decision of the guild to go to war, you can drop your guild membership to opt out. But if you help someone in PvP who is involved in a guild war, then you should be flagged for PvP with everyone from the rival guild as well. The question is, how long should that flag last? I think it should be a persistent flag of at least a 8 hours of in game time OPO time, so you can't cheese out by going to SPO or FPO until your timer expires.

 

@Ristra, I apologize for my frustration, just feels like I'm pulling teeth.

Skalex:No. I am saying it is a choice. You choose what to wear depending on what you are doing… Simple.
Ristra: So is SPO/FPO/OPO you can choose to wear that high value stuff when you step out of PvP
I think we agree????

Skalex: I associate more risk with PvP then dungeon crawling.
Ristra: See comment above, no reason to dungeon crawl in PvP with high value gear, choice again. No high value gear in PvP is likely, not when you can do it in Tram.. I mean FPO.
I am confused.. Sorry. Why not dungeon crawl with better gear in PvP mode? If I feel there is less risk of dieing, and by arming myself with better gear, I will get more mob kills faster, I will wear the better gear. (risk vs reward vs time)

Skalex: When I am actively seeking to PvP, I expect to die more often then when fighting Mobs.
Ristra: Will you be wearing your high value gear or PvP gear. When you are actively avoiding PvP will you wear easily replaced gear?
I feel like I've tried to explain this in 5 posts now… When I actively seek PvP, or enter into a guild battle, I will wear gear that I feel better about losing,
the when I am avoiding PvP (mob hunting). When I am avoiding PvP, I will wear my best gear, because I feel less risk of losing it.

Skalex: If I am entering into a guild battle, Odds are pretty good that I will die, and.. (In a full loot system) the odds are good that my stuff will be looted by my enemy. (Hopefully by my guild mates first). Therefore, entering this scenario, I will bring a good weapon that I am OK with losing.
Ristra: Exactly, but not the best gear that those crafters really want to sell.
If I can afford the gear that the crafter wants to sell, I will arm that. I will arm myself with the best possible gear I can afford to buy / lose. Even if I buy a super powerful weapon from a crafter, I might not necessarily arm it in a guild battle but save it for dungeon crawling where PvP is less likely.

The best gear a vender wants to sell isn't necessarily going to be the most purchased stuff.

 

I agree with Owain's last post. It only makes sense.

If I was being invaded by an army, I wouldn't spare the crafter who is supplying them with the weapons that are killing me because he is not directly fighting me in the battle field.

The man making the arrow is the same to me as the archer who shoots it at me.

 

It is my hope that there is no high value gear, no PvP gear, no PvE gear.

Just gear, good quality, available from your neighborhood crafter gear.

Of course, a master crafter should have better quality gear than a starting crafter, but it shouldn't be OMGWTFBBQ 'I wish you were dead' gear, but just a bit better. Enough better to make it worth my while to go out of my way and pay a bit more for it, but not so much better or so expensive that I'm afraid to wear it kind of gear.

I'd prefer SotA to be about my character, not about my gear.

 

I agree. However using the example of crafters supplying to the guild may not be the best choice. People who should be flagged are those who have used a direct helping spell to one side or another but haven't done any direct damage. So healing one of the guilds is helping them beat you. They should become flagged for PvP or become criminally flagged.

 

The PvP flag doesn't have to be magical in order to work. Even in Lord British's early videos about the game's concept he talked about creating a type of open world PvP for those who want it. He did mention PvP zones which may or may not be in the game, but when he discussed PvP as an option he explained that it would be world wide... An example he gave is that there could be a quest to take contraband from one side of the world to the other making you eligible for PvP encounters as you travel from one side of the world to another. (that's being flagged for PvP world wide until you reach your goal or die).

The term flag is more of a technical term that quickly represents that process. PvP will not just be quest based either if you look at the "Players take over the world" stretch goal. So it is highly likely that we will see a PvP flag (whether or not they use the word flag) in game.

 

Human Nature: Feeling, Thinking, Acting the way Humans Naturally do. Please explain your meaning to Us of the word "The"human nature?

Toxic: Are you a toxicologist? I bet not. The word toxic to describe human nature is then toxic in itself. Poor choice of a descriptive word, if there ever was one, better choice maybe bad, wrong & dastardly. I choose dastardly, I like the sound of that one best. Paint me RED and see me coming toward you from far-far away. Does that sound fair to anyone?

Formula: PvP + Virtue effect = PK. Then PK = Zooming real estate value.

 

You're absolutely right. I only used the magical term because we don't know how PvP is really implemented.

Perhaps the PvP flag works as follows:
- quest based: if you don't manually flag for PvP there may be some parts of the main story quest that entices you into PvP but only for the duration of that quest. So in that sense the flag is set per quest.
- zone based: they've talked about this in regards to dynamic contested resource nodes, such that some event creates a zone that spawns high value resources but that zone is PvP so upon entry you are flagged for PvP, but only within that zone and you are warned upon entry. In that sense the flag is zone based.
- "open" PvP: all roads and areas outside of towns not patrolled guards (or well-lit, as it's been implied there is a light/dark element to this) are essentially PvP areas. You stray from those areas and you are open to attack. It has also been mentioned that the "shadier" areas of towns would be "dangerous" implying you're open to attack there.
- all newbies up to a certain level are protected everywhere, unless they manually flag themselves PvP or consciously take a PvP quest, or knowingly enter a contested resource zone.
- items or gear that give you some extraordinary benefit as a reward but comes with the risk such that it flags you for PvP once you equip that gear or use that item
- there will likely be some cooldown period to disable your PvP flag if you've done one of the above and that time may vary depending on situation
- the various online modes don't affect your PvP flag, forcing you to play alone (SPO) or only with "friends" (FPO). SPO isn't an issue but FPO can be exploited. Cooldown is problematic for FPO so one mitigation would be it also includes PvP in the selective ranking logic such that it includes the other PvP players or guilds you encountered (eg attacked) into your friends list temporarily until that cooldown is over.

This is all speculation and is the "magic PvP flag" I'm referring to until that "magic" is revealed in hopefully an upcoming PvP mega post

 

The problem is this isn't UO and this isn't trammel and feel. I think it should be either you play real world PvP or none. Why be at war with just a guild if you don't want to PvP? If you can war anyone you should be able to defend or murder anyone. Other wise stay on the other side of the fence and kill just monsters. That's the reason for choosing pve, to hunt without real world elements.

 

There should be someone different types of gear, but not PvP gear and pve gear. That's just nonsense to have two sets of gear one for PvP and one for pve.

 

People have a lot of concern for newbies, but with Selective Multiplayer, I don't think the concern is necessary. Lord British has said there will be no newbie ganking, so I suspect they will program the servers so that if flagged for Open PvP, new players will only see other new players unless people are on their Friend List. If your friend ganks you, then take them off your friends list.

That's another way of saying newbies are protected everywhere, but gives a specific mechanism explaining HOW they are protected everywhere, and protects them not my making them invulnerable to others, but rather it makes them invisible to others.

 

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Supplying a guild could mean that someone from the warring guild visits a player vendor and buys something. A crafter has no control over who visits their vendor. Even if you sell something directly, the crafter may not be aware of the guild war status, so I agree, selling things to warring guilds should not flag a crafter.